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Sadly, This Is What Our Once Great Democracy Is Coming To

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shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#16New Post! Feb 19, 2019 @ 06:38:11
@Jennifer1984 Said

We were also told that by 29 March this year, Britain would have 40 global trade deals lined up ready to sign as the Union Flag comes down in Brussells. To date, there are none.

Surprise, surprise this is not actually true. The UK has to date signed post Brexit trade deals with a handful of countries eg Switzerland (11th Feb) and Chile (30 Jan). The UK also has "mutual recognition agreements" with the USA, Australia and NZ.

The difficulty the UK faces re new trade agreements is that at the moment no one knows if there will be a hard or soft exit from the EU, or if the exit will be postponed (or not even happen at all). So trying to organise trade deals when there is so much uncertainty is very difficult.

PS - Seeing as Britain isn't actually a country it would be some feat for it to be able to have any trade deals with anyone.


@Jennifer1984 Said

All that matters to her is that Brexit MUST happen

The UK held a referendum and the people voted (yes it was a peoples vote) to leave the EU. She is therefore honour bound to respect the outcome of a democratic vote.

@Jennifer1984 Said

Britain has the lowest rate of growth in Europe

What are your sources? The latest figures I can find (for the last quarter of 2018) shows that the UK's growth rate (1.3) is infact higher
than France (0.90) and Germany (0.60)

@Jennifer1984 Said

Brexit could lead to a united Ireland.... certainly the break up of the United Kingdom of Scotland and England

You make that sound as if it's a bad thing!

@Jennifer1984 Said

and the loss of Gibraltar if the Spanish get heavy and close the border thus preventing thousands of Gibraltarians from working in Spain. Gibraltar voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU and yet Westminster has ignored their interests completely.

Firstly, there is NOTHING to indicate that the UK will lose Gibraltar post Brexit.
Secondly, the simple reality of being in a democracy means that minority groups often have their interests ignored. This for example has been happening to the Scots. Welsh and Irish/Northern Irish for as long as the UK has existed.

@Jennifer1984 Said

Argentina is lobbying all the South American nations to insist that if Britain attempts to woo them with trade deals, then sovereignty of the Falkland Islands must be put on the negotiationg table. Spain, which has influence in South America, is putting its weight behind this lobbying. It seems pretty certain that if it meant getting trade for England and Wales, Westminster would sell the Falklanders out without batting an eyelid.

Wow, scare mongering at an all new level. It's absurd to think that the UK would surrender the Falklands for the sake of a trade deal.

"Pretty certain Westminster would sell the Falklanders out without batting an eyelid."
Jennifer1984 On about 16 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#17New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 13:35:43
You should live here. You'd fit right in with Yaxley-Lennon or Katie Holmes.

Sadly, you don't have the full picture. Forgive me for pointing out the glaringly obvious, but I doubt you're getting the kind of almost non-stop 24 hour bombardment of coverage that we're getting here.

And none of it's good.

So far this week, 8 Labour Party MP's and 3 Conservatives have resigned from their party and formed an Independent Group. More are expected to do so.

I suppose you'd say it's all par for the course and perfectly normal.

These 11 MP's - who have formed a group dedicated to forcing a second referendum - now outnumber the 10 DUP MP's that are propping up the government (at a cost of £1 billion of taxpayers money that May used as a bribe to buy their votes).

Westminster right now is a massive numbers game. A second meaningful vote is due soon and if the Theresa May "Deal" is voted down, the 11 will support the Yvette Cooper amendment to the Brexit Act which will allow for a second referendum in the event of a "No Deal" Brexit.

May is off to the Middle East this week to try to persuade the EU to make concessions on the backstop and Junker has as good as told her not to bother turning up. What part of "There will be no further discussion on the Departure Agreement" doesn't she understand...?

You are trotting out the same tired old arguments that have been utterly discredited here months ago. You're way behind the times, have no real understanding of what is going on and all you're doing is parroting the line being pushed by the extreme hard-right wing factions in UKIP.

You're out of your depth here.
Jennifer1984 On about 16 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#18New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 13:38:10
@shadowen Said

Surprise, surprise this is not actually true. The UK has to date signed post Brexit trade deals with a handful of countries eg Switzerland (11th Feb) and Chile (30 Jan). The UK also has "mutual recognition agreements" with the USA, Australia and NZ.

The difficulty the UK faces re new trade agreements is that at the moment no one knows if there will be a hard or soft exit from the EU, or if the exit will be postponed (or not even happen at all). So trying to organise trade deals when there is so much uncertainty is very difficult.

PS - Seeing as Britain isn't actually a country it would be some feat for it to be able to have any trade deals with anyone.



The UK held a referendum and the people voted (yes it was a peoples vote) to leave the EU. She is therefore honour bound to respect the outcome of a democratic vote.


What are your sources? The latest figures I can find (for the last quarter of 2018) shows that the UK's growth rate (1.3) is infact higher
than France (0.90) and Germany (0.60)


You make that sound as if it's a bad thing!


Firstly, there is NOTHING to indicate that the UK will lose Gibraltar post Brexit.
Secondly, the simple reality of being in a democracy means that minority groups often have their interests ignored. This for example has been happening to the Scots. Welsh and Irish/Northern Irish for as long as the UK has existed.


Wow, scare mongering at an all new level. It's absurd to think that the UK would surrender the Falklands for the sake of a trade deal.

"Pretty certain Westminster would sell the Falklanders out without batting an eyelid."


I could debunk every one of those arguments above but that would mean doing the research on every point.

If you lived here you'd fit right in with Yaxley-Lennon or Katie Holmes and the rest of the Kipper nutjobs. Frankly, you're not worth it.

F'rinstance though, on the point of the growth figures it was revealed that the government subtly tweaked the figures put out to the media to make them look better than they were. They reported Britain's annual growth at the end of the fourth quarter (Q4), but listed other countries at the end of Q3, or even Q2 to make them look worse than Britain's. They got caught on that one. When all Q4 figures were taken into account, it produced the report I described in my post.

Like I said.... you're not here. You don't have a clue what's going on.



Sadly, you don't have the full picture. Forgive me for pointing out the glaringly obvious, but I doubt you're getting the kind of almost non-stop 24 hour bombardment of coverage that we're getting here.

And none of it's good.

So far this week, 8 Labour Party MP's and 3 Conservatives have resigned from their party and formed an Independent Group. More are expected to do so.

I suppose you'd say it's all par for the course and perfectly normal.

These 11 MP's - who have formed a group dedicated to forcing a second referendum - now outnumber the 10 DUP MP's that are propping up the government (at a cost of £1 billion of taxpayers money that May used as a bribe to buy their votes).

Westminster right now is a massive numbers game. A second meaningful vote is due soon and if the Theresa May "Deal" is voted down, the 11 will support the Yvette Cooper amendment to the Brexit Act which will allow for a second referendum in the event of a "No Deal" Brexit. Not long ago it was absolutely off the table, but now it's being seriously considered. The numbers aren't there yet, but they're changing day by day.

May is off to the Middle East this week to try to persuade the EU to make concessions on the backstop and Junker has as good as told her not to bother turning up. What part of "There will be no further discussion on the Departure Agreement" doesn't she understand...?

You are trotting out the same tired old arguments that have been utterly discredited here months ago. You're way behind the times, have no real understanding of what is going on and all you're doing is parroting the line being pushed by the extreme hard-right wing factions in UKIP.

You're out of your depth here.
Jennifer1984 On about 16 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#19New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 13:55:10
Where do you measure On The Brexit "Thick Head" Scale..?

This scale measures how ill informed or just plain dumb anybody is by the way they speak about Brexit:


"Politicians need to work together"

How exactly do you expect people to ‘work together’ on entirely incompatible things? You wouldn’t expect Mary Berry to work with James Dyson to bake a plastic cake that sucks up dust. Thickness level: 1


"We must respect the referendum result"

A quick analogy: you book a family holiday to Somalia because it’s sunny and cheap. However, upon Googling it you realise you will probably be killed or taken hostage for ransom. Then you pack your shorts anyway and hop on a flight to Mogadishu. Thickness level: 2


"We have to leave to prevent riots by the far-right"

Utterly weird logic in which you immediately bow to a questionable threat you should resist. It's like letting a ten-year-old drive off in your car because he threatened to duff you up. Thickness level: 3


"Just get out now"

Repeated ad nauseum on BBC Question Time. Unfortunately the subtext is: “I have no interest in understanding this enormous s***storm I voted for.” Thickness level: 4


"The EU is going to collapse"

Brexiters arrive at this conclusion by wishfully overestimating the importance of, say, the ‘gilets jaunes’. It’s like thinking Marvel is going to stop making superhero films because your mate Dave fell asleep during Ant-Man. Thickness level: 5


"We’ll sort something out"

When blind optimism intersects with sheer stupidity. We may well ‘sort something out’, but what? Committing suicide ‘sorts out’ your old-age care arrangements, but it’s not ideal. Thickness level: 6
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#20New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 14:01:18
@Jennifer1984 Said

F'rinstance though, on the point of the growth figures it was revealed that the government subtly tweaked the figures put out to the media to make them look better than they were. They reported Britain's annual growth at the end of the fourth quarter (Q4), but listed other countries at the end of Q3, or even Q2 to make them look worse than Britain's. They got caught on that one. When all Q4 figures were taken into account, it produced the report I described in my post.


The growth figures i quoted didnt come from the UK government but from an international financial website. The growth figures for France and Germany were both from the 4th quarter of 2018.

@Jennifer1984 Said

all you're doing is parroting the line being pushed by the extreme hard-right wing factions in UKIP.


You seem to think that anyone who doesnt agree with you is extreme right wing!

@Jennifer1984 Said

you don't have the full picture...You're way behind the times, have no real understanding of what is going on...You're out of your depth here...You don't have a clue what's going on.

So says the woman who claims the UK will lose Gibraltar post Brexit and sell out the Falklands for a trade deal!!!
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#21New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 14:11:38
@Jennifer1984 Said

I could debunk every one of those arguments above but that would mean doing the research on every point.


I know how much you hate doing research. Must be so annoying when facts get in the way of an emotion based narrative.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#22New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 14:14:37
@Jennifer1984 Said

When all Q4 figures were taken into account, it produced the report I described in my post.



Simply name or provide a link for your figures. Surely that's easy to do.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#23New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 14:17:54
@Jennifer1984 Said

Where do you measure On The Brexit "Thick Head" Scale..?

A quick analogy: you book a family holiday to Somalia because it’s sunny and cheap. However, upon Googling it you realise you will probably be killed or taken hostage for ransom. Then you pack your shorts anyway and hop on a flight to Mogadishu. Thickness level: 2


Someone who equates a referendum result with booking a family holiday must rate very highly on the thick head scale.
Jennifer1984 On about 16 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#24New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 14:27:55
I was quoting the Governor of the Bank of England. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to Britain.
Jennifer1984 On about 16 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#25New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 14:30:49
It's called an analogy.


Analogy:

noun
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

Have you read my post somewhere else about my former English Language teacher...?

I paid attention in class, you know. And I learned how to make comparisons for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

It's not difficult to do and it's even easier for anybody who doesn't figure on the thickness scale to understand.


@shadowen Said

Simply name or provide a link for your figures. Surely that's easy to do.



Do your own homework.
Jennifer1984 On about 16 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#26New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 14:46:11
@shadowen Said

Someone who equates a referendum result with booking a family holiday must rate very highly on the thick head scale.


Well, it's how we do things here, OK...? It's the British sense of humour. We've been been doing it for a while now and we're kinda used to it.

I know you're a pom hater of the classic Aussie Male ilk, and the thought of the hated old country going down the dunny must fill you with glee, but you're so far off the mark on just about everything to do with Britain and Brexit.


Whooaaaaahahhhh....!! Just seen on Sky News, Rees-Smug talking about guess what...? Gibraltar sovereignty..!! When asked by the interviewer about Spanish involvement on the issue he's just said that "In a No Deal Brexit all options would be open for negotiation."
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#27New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 14:57:48
@Jennifer1984 Said

It's called an analogy.


Analogy:

noun
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

I paid attention in class, you know. And I learned how to make comparisons for the purpose of explanation or clarification.


Obviously you didnt pay attention or you simply don't understand Brexit. The vote was to LEAVE the EU. The vote wasnt to simply initiate the mechanisms necessary for that to happen.

A more accurate analogy would be that of a family looking to move to another country and finding that the administrative issues are perhaps more challenging than they anticipated.


@Jennifer1984 Said

Do your own homework.

I have. I have checked three different international financial sites and they all say the same thing...which is what I posted.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#28New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 15:02:14
@Jennifer1984 Said

I know you're a pom hater of the classic Aussie Male ilk, and the thought of the hated old country going down the dunny must fill you with glee.

As always you are showing that you know nothing at all about Australia in general and Aussie males in particular. I don't know of anyone here who would take the slightest bit of enjoyment at the prospect of the UK going down the dunny. Not a one.
Jennifer1984 On about 16 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#29New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 15:05:29
Getting away from pointless bickering with the Aussie Male Pom Hater, I read this article last week by Bonnie Greer (yes, that Bonnie Greer, of Jackie Brown fame) in The New European.

She's been living in UK for some time now and has taken dual nationality. I enjoy her articles in TNE every week and I've singled this one out because I'd appreciate some insight from your side of the pond.

Bonnie Greer: In The Green Corner. Britain is making a powerful foe of the US if it picks a fight with Ireland

It's quite a scary piece if you think that the biggest deal the Brexiters hope to put on the table is a trade deal with the US.

And right now, we are pissing the Irish off big time.

Have a read and let me know what you think of Ms Greer's assessment.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#30New Post! Feb 22, 2019 @ 15:05:39
@Jennifer1984 Said

I was quoting the Governor of the Bank of England. He knows what he's talking about when it comes to Britain.

Is this the same GoBE who has predicted Armageddon for the UK economy but just recently said things like:
"Brexit can lead to a new form of international cooperation and cross-border commerce built on a better balance of local and supranational authorities.”
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