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Right and Wrong Among Animals

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Ghyda On February 11, 2020




Anaheim, California
#1New Post! Jan 31, 2020 @ 19:38:39
Today I did the Barns and Noble thing, and I bought:

Wild Justice: The Moral Lives of Animals

by Marc Berkoff

He published the book ten years ago, so the information may be dated; but we will see what he has says.
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#2New Post! Jan 31, 2020 @ 20:58:05
Let me... us... know how it is.

I'll trust your judgement as to whether or not to read it.

I'm a bit bogged down with The Solitary Bees: Biology, Evolution, Conservation, Danforth et al...

The words "right" and "wrong" aren't addressed in the philosophical/religious sense, though societal vs parasitical behavior are.
chaski On about 8 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#3New Post! Feb 03, 2020 @ 19:17:27
Nothing to do with "right and wrong"...



Another dog sledding...

Probably a form of instinctive behavior...

or fake news....
Ghyda On February 11, 2020




Anaheim, California
#4New Post! Feb 03, 2020 @ 20:14:05
@chaski Said

Nothing to do with "right and wrong"...



Another dog sledding...

Probably a form of instinctive behavior...

or fake news....


The dog looks like it is having fun.

I think some animals have emotional reactions of some kind. One time we visited a relative in the Midwest. He lived on a farm, and some of the cows had calves. One of the calves died, and a cow, which must have been the mother, stood all the next day looking at the dead calf.
Ghyda On February 11, 2020




Anaheim, California
#5New Post! Feb 04, 2020 @ 01:14:16
I received a shipment confirmation from Barnes ans Noble. Unfortunately they have an incorrect address, so the delivery will take a few extra days.
Ghyda On February 11, 2020




Anaheim, California
#6New Post! Feb 08, 2020 @ 14:36:42
Today, the Post Office delivered Bekoff's book. It's full of information about social behavior in animals.

In capuchin monkeys the females appear to enforce a code of behavior by refusing to have sex with males who misbehave. Also, they refuse to cooperate with human researches who have short-changed them during a bartering transaction.

Bekoff doesn't say so, but, seems to me, the fact that the monkey's will "barter" suggests that they have a set of rules in a sort of free monkey market.
chaski On about 8 hours ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#7New Post! Feb 08, 2020 @ 15:43:28
@Ghyda Said

Today, the Post Office delivered Bekoff's book. It's full of information about social behavior in animals.

In capuchin monkeys the females appear to enforce a code of behavior by refusing to have sex with males who misbehave. Also, they refuse to cooperate with human researches who have short-changed them during a bartering transaction.

Bekoff doesn't say so, but, seems to me, the fact that the monkey's will "barter" suggests that they have a set of rules in a sort of free monkey market.



They seem to know when they have been wronged.
mrmhead On about 7 hours ago




NE, Ohio
#8New Post! Feb 08, 2020 @ 17:00:35
@Ghyda Said

Today, the Post Office delivered Bekoff's book. It's full of information about social behavior in animals.

In capuchin monkeys the females appear to enforce a code of behavior by refusing to have sex with males who misbehave.



They're not the only ones ...
Ghyda On February 11, 2020




Anaheim, California
#9New Post! Feb 08, 2020 @ 17:07:41
@chaski Said

They seem to know when they have been wronged.


Mekoff mentions Jane Goodall's "observation of a group of male chimpanzees pursuing and then killing all the members of another chimpanzee group over a two-year period."

Goodall called it "brutality," but maybe the other group had violated the chimp code.
Ghyda On February 11, 2020




Anaheim, California
#10New Post! Feb 08, 2020 @ 17:14:07
@mrmhead Said

They're not the only ones ...



I'm not sure where I heard this. Maybe it is just a story. After the Battle of Aegospotami the Athenian women refused to have sex until the men made peace with the Spartans.
mrmhead On about 7 hours ago




NE, Ohio
#11New Post! Feb 08, 2020 @ 18:31:20
@Ghyda Said

I'm not sure where I heard this. Maybe it is just a story. After the Battle of Aegospotami the Athenian women refused to have sex until the men made peace with the Spartans.


That seems to ring a bell with me too - Like I've heard it before, though can't remember the details.


Let us know if that book covers parents abandoning a weak child for the survival of the others.


One of these nature shows had (specific species may be wrong, but idea the same) a heard of buffalo being hunted by wolves.
After the buffalo were stampeding for awhile and tiring from the chase, they were starting to separate and finally one big bull nailed a young'en in the a** so he toppled and the wolves got their meal.


You don't have to be the fastest, just not the slowest.
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#12New Post! Feb 08, 2020 @ 21:49:22
@Ghyda Said

Mekoff mentions Jane Goodall's "observation of a group of male chimpanzees pursuing and then killing all the members of another chimpanzee group over a two-year period."

Goodall called it "brutality," but maybe the other group had violated the chimp code.

I have a male cat. He has about 5 acres of territory, actually a little more than that. Pretty much every day he marks his territory.

I think the cat code of conduct means that everything inside of his territorial perimeter markings is his and everything outside of his markings belongs to other cats.

There are a number of cats who apparently violate the moral cat code to pay attention to territorial markings.

When they do this my cat inflicts cat justice upon them.

One day I was watching another cat seemed very interested in coming onto the property. We have a lot of gophers and it seem to be interested in obtaining one of the gophers.

But this cat had run afoul of my cat, the male who owns these gophers.

As I watched, this cat kept inching forward to the edge of the property then it would look up in the direction of where my cat probably was hiding. Eventually this would be gopher thief decided it was best to not violate the cat moral code of conduct and walked away.

Note: I’m sure your biology teachers would view this as an example of instinct… though perhaps it was learned behavior… Somehow the potential gopher thief cat assessed the situation and came up with a “right versus wrong” decision.

😎
darkman666 On about 3 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#13New Post! Feb 08, 2020 @ 22:19:49
most americans know this trivia facts about english people from the uk.

uk people driving on the wrong side of the road from their cats and dogs.

the cats and dogs doesn't know their right to left, when they are driving in their cars. they are driving on the road, they use two paws on the steeling wheel, and the tail out the right side of the car's window. they are standing on the driver's seat. their front paws are steering wheel, the animal's head out of the driver's side. so their tails natural is sticking out of the passenger's side window. of course, their cars naturally went in a circle.

so uk people like it look from outside of the car, when the tail aiming right, instead left. even, the car even was going circle in counterclockwise direction. uk people like this and adapted in their society.

this is why euorpean's cars design that the steeling wheel on the passenger's side in england and why the europeans drive on the wrong side. in america, europeans spend more time in traffic courts than americans.
Ghyda On February 11, 2020




Anaheim, California
#14New Post! Feb 09, 2020 @ 21:52:40
Bekoff defines moral behavior, and then he divides the behavior into three "clusters."

cooperation - reciprocity, trust, punishment, revenge

empathy - sympathy, compassion, helping, grieving, consoling

justice - sense of fair play, sharing, desire for equity, indignation, retribution, spite
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#15New Post! Feb 10, 2020 @ 05:47:01
@Ghyda Said

Bekoff defines moral behavior, and then he divides the behavior into three "clusters."

cooperation - reciprocity, trust, punishment, revenge

empathy - sympathy, compassion, helping, grieving, consoling

justice - sense of fair play, sharing, desire for equity, indignation, retribution, spite



Bekoff seems to be on to something.

Granted there are a lot of humans-animals that seem to have a hard time with many of those things.

In addition, there is probably some gradation through out the animal kingdom... for example: I expect Wolves have more of those listed things than Komodo Dragons do; wolves display what at least appears to be trust, I'm not confident that Komodo Dragons have any trust other than the trust that a bigger Komodo Dragon is more dangerous than a smaller Komodo Dragon...

Granted I haven't discussed "trust" Komodos... maybe I am making a sweeping generalization about their apparent behavior towards each other...



On the other hand, members of an ant colonies appear to trust each other more than humans do... etc.
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