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Justpassing

Avoca Vic Australia, Australia

#46

Dec 03, 2017 @ 01:27:36

@chaski Said

Well that isn't very biblical.

Judaism - a cleanising ceremony - from unclean to clean.e.g. an unclean person or animal. Can be performed numerous times.

John The Baptist - still a cleanising ceremony - of repentance

Christianity - Paul diferentianted between John's baptism of repentance and being baptised in the name of Jesus. (Acts 19)
Baptism was originally when one was old enough to understand and make up one's own mind, and involved full or partial immersion.

Infant baptism began around 200AD and possibly as a substitute for Jewish circumsision, and as an welcome to "Christian membership" (like a passport to show belonging to a certain country)

Most Churches has no official teaching regarding the fate of infants who die without baptism - in God's mercy" SAme as most Churches do not say that baptism is essential to get into heaven. Those that do will quote Bible verses supporting their claim.

So yeah, it is Biblical.. but not how some claim it to be.

Same as marriage... some claim it to be a religious tradition... but it was always a civil event. At one stage England banned church wedding even.

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Justpassing

Avoca Vic Australia, Australia

#47

Dec 03, 2017 @ 01:36:47

Quote:
This is incorrect.

While Jesus may or may not be the reason why christianity was founded, Jesus clearly stated that Peter would be the rock upon which the church would be build meaning that Peter would found the church.

And while the teachings of the New Testament are primarily based on the words of Paul, it would more accurate to say that christianity as we know it was founded by a bunch of early christian leaders (aka bishops) at the direction of the Emperor Constantine.

The very first "Christianians" were Jews... considered themselves as a branch of Judaism. (There were many denominations of Judaism even then)

Yep, the church as we know it came about though becoming part of the establishment... following establishment ways .. like setting up hieracy - Bishops.. Popes.. etc etc. And having big meeting to make decisions. All that crap that creates a man-made organisation.

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Justpassing

Avoca Vic Australia, Australia

#48

Dec 03, 2017 @ 01:47:29

@Erimitus Said

JP: ...people treat the church as the religion whereas it should be God they believe in and worship.

E: I kind of see the people as the Church not the building but then the building is a church. Anyway I do not understand what you mean.

E: I worked as a janitor in a church for a number of years. My direct experience (though admittedly a rather small sample) ...at least some of the congregation honestly believe in and worship their God.

E: The like the rituals, were nice. Some churches don't have rituals but actually they are kind of ritualistically non-ritualistic.

E: ...and (or course) bingo is fun.

E: Minister of a particular sect has interpreted the text in a particular way and the believer finds an interpreter that tells them what they want to hear and then follows that minister.

E: You do not need to go to a building to find God. Wherever you go God is there. God knows what you think and what you want and need.

E: Gathering in fellowship with those who believe as you do is reassuring and it helps get you through your life. And as I said the bingo is fun too.

Remember back when people thought that the only contact one could have with God was through a Priest? Well in some ways that still exists for some people.

If the Priest/Pope/Minister says "Jump" they say "How high".
They don't question what they hear.. research for themselves.

Martin Luther found a German language Bible hidden high up on the library shelves overed in dust.
At the time no ordinary person was allowed to own a Bible, let alone one that they could read - only a Preist etc had access to a Bible - and it was in Latin.

Reading through the Bible he found that what he had learnt was in fact - incorrect.

He questioned... he wondered... he thought why not allow everybody to read a Bible.

Does this help explain what I mean?

Yes, God is everywhere... even at Bingo. lol

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mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#49

Dec 03, 2017 @ 02:06:37

@Justpassing Said

Judaism - a cleanising ceremony - from unclean to clean.e.g. an unclean person or animal. Can be performed numerous times.

John The Baptist - still a cleanising ceremony - of repentance

Christianity - Paul diferentianted between John's baptism of repentance and being baptised in the name of Jesus. (Acts 19)
Baptism was originally when one was old enough to understand and make up one's own mind, and involved full or partial immersion.

Infant baptism began around 200AD and possibly as a substitute for Jewish circumsision, and as an welcome to "Christian membership" (like a passport to show belonging to a certain country)

Most Churches has no official teaching regarding the fate of infants who die without baptism - in God's mercy" SAme as most Churches do not say that baptism is essential to get into heaven. Those that do will quote Bible verses supporting their claim.

So yeah, it is Biblical.. but not how some claim it to be.

Same as marriage... some claim it to be a religious tradition... but it was always a civil event. At one stage England banned church wedding even.

As was instructed to me, a baptism is so the child is cleansed and will go to heaven should he die before he has the chance to make the decision to follow (the church) himself.

By marrying in the church you have already promised to raise your children in their system. ... or so I've been told.

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chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#50

Dec 03, 2017 @ 02:15:07

@Justpassing Said

Blah blah blah...

So yeah, it is Biblical.. but not how some claim it to be.

No. You said "Baptism is only a naming ceremony .. and a commitment by the parents to raise it with an understanding of God."

You said nothing about it being a "cleansing ceremony - of repentance", etc.

So, your initial assessment of baptism was NOT biblical.

Keep in mind that I did not say that baptism was not biblical. I said that your statement about baptism was not biblical.

Focusing helps.

@Justpassing Said

Same as marriage... some claim it to be a religious tradition... but it was always a civil event. At one stage England banned church wedding even.

And marriage... initially a "political" thing... not religious... but good try.

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Edited: December 03, 2017 @ 02:19

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#51

Dec 03, 2017 @ 02:22:19

@Justpassing Said

The very first "Christianians" were Jews...

Yes.

@Justpassing Said

Yep, the church as we know it came about though becoming part of the establishment... following establishment ways .. like setting up hieracy - Bishops.. Popes.. etc etc. And having big meeting to make decisions. All that crap that creates a man-made organisation.

Is that your way of agreeing with me?

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Erimitus

The mind of God, Antarctica

#52

Dec 03, 2017 @ 03:31:32

The only part of Josephus' [The Jewish Wars] that I have read is the section on Jesus. Even the most ardent apologists agree that it is at least in part interrelation.

I doubt that as a member of the Roman aristocracy at a time when the only good Jew was a crucified Jew he would write that section.

If I can find it I will post it and you can decide for your self.

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Erimitus

The mind of God, Antarctica

#53

Dec 03, 2017 @ 03:45:00

@Justpassing Said

I don't simply believe something just because someone says something.

So yeath I very much doubt there was a twin brother who would set up an elaborate plot.

Besides, the Jews would have been aware of the twin. That would have blown the whole plot sky high.

First of all this is just a made up story. I do not believe it happened. I don't even believe that Jesus happened.

Secondly, as I remember correctly the apostles did not recognize Him when He showed up.

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Erimitus

The mind of God, Antarctica

#54

Dec 03, 2017 @ 03:47:37

Of course the entire Bible is just a made up story. Ok, maybe not the entire Bible but a whole big lot of it.

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twilitezone911

Saint Louis, Missouri

#55

Dec 03, 2017 @ 12:13:33

@Erimitus Said

Of course the entire Bible is just a made up story. Ok, maybe not the entire Bible but a whole big lot of it.

you wonder back then, the bible was designed as a fair tales book. so, why the bible soo compliticate to people, who has under high school grade intelligence?

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Edited: December 03, 2017 @ 12:18

Erimitus

The mind of God, Antarctica

#56

Dec 03, 2017 @ 17:00:00

@twilitezone911 Said

you wonder back then, the bible was designed as a fair tales book. so, why the bible soo compliticate to people, who has under high school grade intelligence?

I do not know. I am not suggesting that the Bible should not be read. There is a whole great big lot of good stuff in it. I am saying that the stories should not be taken literally.

It may be that those who have not been educated/indoctrinated understate better than those who have.

I am not suggesting that the doctrines of Jesus should not be followed. I am saying that Jesus (like all demigods) is mythological.

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twilitezone911

Saint Louis, Missouri

#57

Dec 03, 2017 @ 17:07:28

@Erimitus Said

I do not know. I am not suggesting that the Bible should not be read. There is a whole great big lot of good stuff in it. I am saying that the stories should not be taken literally.

It may be that those who have not been educated/indoctrinated understate better than those who have.

I am not suggesting that the doctrines of Jesus should not be followed. I am saying that Jesus (like all demigods) is mythological.

i agree. even today, even educate and uneducate people take the bible face value. never undertsand what between the lines has much complicate thought behind it.

jesus , if was a real or a myth, was a symbol of peace. at the time, need to be there.

it is questionable, if jesus came back to today, if he really can bring peace to the world.

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Erimitus

The mind of God, Antarctica

#58

Dec 03, 2017 @ 23:46:18

@twilitezone911 Said

i agree. even today, even educate and uneducate people take the bible face value. never undertsand what between the lines has much complicate thought behind it.

jesus , if was a real or a myth, was a symbol of peace. at the time, need to be there.

it is questionable, if jesus came back to today, if he really can bring peace to the world.

He would just be crucified again. That is always the fate of messiahs.

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Erimitus

The mind of God, Antarctica

#59

Dec 03, 2017 @ 23:55:16

As Jesus ascended into heaven he called down, "don't wait up". Pete asked John, "what did he say?" John said, "I think he said I will be right back".

This has caused a lot of confusion over the past couple thousand years.

In Biblical idiom (as I understand it) 30 days means a long period of time. Jesus waited 40 days before his ascension. Maybe that means it was a very long period of time. And (of course) maybe not.

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twilitezone911

Saint Louis, Missouri

#60

Dec 04, 2017 @ 00:05:24

@Erimitus Said

He would just be crucified again. That is always the fate of messiahs.

in sense, jesus had counterparts in different parelell worlds, the fate would be the same. because " the leopard can't change his spots ".

you and i change probably we have good and evil in dna. our dna change in different enviroment like a chameon can. why different parelell worlds. we a little be different complete the opposite, then we are.

jesus is pure good and pure inside with a good heart. he has no evil within himself. he can't be alter.

1

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