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Repub bill HR 358 "Let Women Die"

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shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#31New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 19:24:02
@chisa96 Said

Didn't they already though? I mean, it's perfectly understandable that a doctor should be able to decide if they're willing to perform abortions. The same way that you shouldn't force a woman into choosing abortion, you shouldn't be able to force a doctor to perform one.

The same applies to hospitals. If they don't want to perform abortions in any circumstances, and don't have any doctors staffed that are willing to do so, shouldn't they have the right to make that decision?

Abortion is not only a touchy subject when considering the women wanting to have them; it could also be incredible difficult for the doctor deciding to perform the procedure. They should be protected too if they decide that they simply cannot do so.

I don't really see what is so wrong with this. Is it denying women the right to transfer to a hospital that is willing to perform the procedure?


Not without losing their federal funding they should not.
It is settled law, it is a legal medical procedure between Dr & patient. This is VERY bad law and flies in the face of conservatives wanting individuals to control their own destiny.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#32New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 19:25:21
@jonnythan Said

There is a significant ethical difference between a positive act to terminate someone's life and a passive act to allow someone to die.

Doctors have to make difficult decisions like this. Most people find it much more difficult emotionally to actually perform the killing action than to simply allow someone to die.

To a doctor who views both the mother and the fetus as independent human beings, he has the choice of either performing the killing act on one to save the other, or allowing one to die to save the other. Both are horrendous choices, obviously, but to a physician who genuinely and honestly believes that a fetus is a person (and, in reality, there is solid scientific basis for this belief), the choice is pretty clear - he must allow the mother to die to save the fetus.


And what of allowing the mother to die AND the fetus? That was kinda glossed over by you & the anti-choicers!
drman321 On December 28, 2013




, Florida
#33New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 19:33:19
@DorkySupergirl Said

Thanks. I see but is that still violating the rule of a doctor not being allowed to harm someone. If a doctor knows that failure to provide me said abortion is going to kill me, is that not causing harm to me?



You are misunderstanding that bit of the Hippocratic oath.

The line is "First do no harm"

That means that the doctor is to not take any action that would be harmful. Not performing an abortion isn't an action, it is inaction, therefore it doesn't apply.

The idea of that section is to caution a doctor, if you don't know what you are doing it is better to not do anything for fear of accidentally making the situation worse and causing harm.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#34New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 19:36:21
@chisa96 Said

Didn't they already though? I mean, it's perfectly understandable that a doctor should be able to decide if they're willing to perform abortions. The same way that you shouldn't force a woman into choosing abortion, you shouldn't be able to force a doctor to perform one.

The same applies to hospitals. If they don't want to perform abortions in any circumstances, and don't have any doctors staffed that are willing to do so, shouldn't they have the right to make that decision?

Abortion is not only a touchy subject when considering the women wanting to have them; it could also be incredible difficult for the doctor deciding to perform the procedure. They should be protected too if they decide that they simply cannot do so.

I don't really see what is so wrong with this. Is it denying women the right to transfer to a hospital that is willing to perform the procedure?


Millions of american women have access to a solitary hospital. Millions of american women would be at risk - having to transfer many miles during AN EMERGENCY!
Geesh people, really, get a clue!!!!
Bukwis On February 05, 2013




Port Edward, Canada
#35New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 19:37:26
@drman321 Said

You are misunderstanding that bit of the Hippocratic oath.

The line is "First do no harm"

That means that the doctor is to not take any action that would be harmful. Not performing an abortion isn't an action, it is inaction, therefore it doesn't apply.

The idea of that section is to caution a doctor, if you don't know what you are doing it is better to not do anything for fear of accidentally making the situation worse and causing harm.


Like if a doctor comes on a road crash and refuses to give aid for fear of litigation?
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#36New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 19:38:16
@shinobinoz Said

Millions of american women have access to a solitary hospital. Millions of american women would be at risk - having to transfer many miles during AN EMERGENCY!
Geesh people, really, get a clue!!!!



IF those hospitals opt to deny abortions. You seem to think that every single one of them will.
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#37New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 19:45:56
@Bukwis Said

Like if a doctor comes on a road crash and refuses to give aid for fear of litigation?



We have Samaritan laws in place for people giving emergency aid. People with medical training, however, are obligated to assist. That might vary from state to state though....don't quote me on that.
DorkySupergirl On November 02, 2017




, Canada
#38New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 20:10:25
@jonnythan Said

That's what doctors do.


Let me ask you something: would you feel OK demanding that a doctor kill my grandmother if it would prevent you from dying?



If your grandmother were growing inside my body and my giving birth to your grandmother would cause my death, it is then my right to decide if I want to terminate that life, growing inside me, to save my own life.
DorkySupergirl On November 02, 2017




, Canada
#39New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 20:27:31
@someone_else Said

I agree. For some reason, people only mention 'playing God' when it comes to killing people - but if you save someone who would have otherwise died, did you not just play God then?



Above all, I must not play at God.

From the current Hippocratic Oath.

I consider playing at God being choosing what life is more valuable to save. To decide to do less work for one life and more to save another life. Playing God can be done saving a life. It is my legal right, where I live, to refuse a surgery even if it saves my life. If my doctor does it anyways and he saves my life, he went against my word and did it when I said not to. So to me that is wrong to.

If I do not want the life that is growing in me because giving birth will kill me, in my opinion, that is my right. For a doctor to decide my life is not valuable enough to save, that is playing at God.

The life in me is still in me and still in my body so who is he to tell me he is going to choose for me to die.

But yes, to me sometimes saving a life is playing God and is wrong just as it is in terminating a life.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#40New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 20:30:51
@DorkySupergirl Said

If your grandmother were growing inside my body and my giving birth to your grandmother would cause my death, it is then my right to decide if I want to terminate that life, growing inside me, to save my own life.


I don't want to turn this into a debate over abortion or whether a fetus is indeed a person or not.

I'm asking you to accept the fact that some people genuinely believe a fetus is indeed a person, whether it's inside another human being or not.

To these people, there is no ethical difference between killing my grandmother and killing your fetus.
drman321 On December 28, 2013




, Florida
#41New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 20:34:30
@Bukwis Said

Like if a doctor comes on a road crash and refuses to give aid for fear of litigation?



No, I mean like if a doctor is on the scene of a shooting they won't attempt to get the bullet out because they don't really know the situation and could inadvertently make it worse.. Their first duty is to do no harm. When in doubt inaction is the best action.
DuLu On January 11, 2017
CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!





Waverly, Washington
#42New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 20:41:07
@jonnythan Said

Not quite like that.

If this bill becomes law, you are allowed to choose to have an abortion to save your life... but the hospital has the right to deny you said abortion.


There's always a catch-all somewhere. Used to be, in the U.S. military, every form filled out required your social security number. They got around that by one of these same 'catch-alls' -- putting this notice on all forms: "Social Security Number is not required. However, the action you are trying to do CANNOT BE processed without the use of your number."

There's always a way around things. Depends on your morales and values.
DuLu On January 11, 2017
CHOOSE HAPPINESS!!!





Waverly, Washington
#43New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 20:47:31
@jonnythan Said

No, it's not what she said at all.

The vast majority of hospitals would not deny a woman a lifesaving abortion if she chose to have one. The distinction that you can choose to have one but that the hospital can deny it, versus not being able to choose to have one in the first place, is incredibly significant.


As I see it, it would let the woman have her CHOICE of having a life- saving abortion; but, NOT HERE at this hospital. There's the
catch-22 I posted about previously.
boxerdc On December 18, 2012

Deleted



,
#44New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 20:53:59
@jonnythan Said

To these people, there is no ethical difference between killing my grandmother and killing your fetus.


Let me grab my zombie shovel, have your grandmother stand up and face away from me, and I'll settle this right now.
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#45New Post! Oct 14, 2011 @ 20:57:03
@DorkySupergirl Said



If I do not want the life that is growing in me because giving birth will kill me, in my opinion, that is my right.




But you see... that is playing God too. I'm not saying one is more right than the other nor that they are exactly the same thing, but they are both playing God.

I wouldn't want to be in the position to decide for another person and I don't think the doctor's should be allowed to. That's why I said earlier that women need to think of these things before they decide on a doctor/hospital. They need to find one that will accommodate their beliefs.
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