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Repub bill HR 358 "Let Women Die"

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crazylikeafox On June 02, 2017




McKinney, Texas
#151New Post! Nov 06, 2011 @ 01:18:08
@shinobinoz Said

So am I. And life of the fetus is dependent upon the mom until birth- ergo mom trumps fetus until that time.


Well that's certainly your opinion, and I really have no desire whatsoever to debate abortion (mostly because the 2 sides are so entrenched nothing can possibly come out of it). How about answering my post? How else do you expect us to interpret those posts of yours?
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#152New Post! Nov 06, 2011 @ 15:46:48
@crazylikeafox Said

Well that's certainly your opinion, and I really have no desire whatsoever to debate abortion (mostly because the 2 sides are so entrenched nothing can possibly come out of it). How about answering my post? How else do you expect us to interpret those posts of yours?


What?
You got to be kidding right?
If you want to be a bank teller and cannot bring yourself to give money out to others- you should go into another field. And that does not preclude you from working in said bank see. There are plenty of jobs there to work in and not handle money. The LEGAL health objective of abortion cannot be undermined by someone's morals. Go give shots at a clinic or or practice surgery or anything else that does not require you to go against your religious interpretation.
And I did not say blind religion- I said blinded BY religion.
crazylikeafox On June 02, 2017




McKinney, Texas
#153New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 04:27:36
@shinobinoz Said

What?
You got to be kidding right?
If you want to be a bank teller and cannot bring yourself to give money out to others- you should go into another field. And that does not preclude you from working in said bank see. There are plenty of jobs there to work in and not handle money. The LEGAL health objective of abortion cannot be undermined by someone's morals. Go give shots at a clinic or or practice surgery or anything else that does not require you to go against your religious interpretation.
And I did not say blind religion- I said blinded BY religion.


Argue semantics all you want, but you're STILL painting the pro-life side as ONLY objecting to abortion based on religion despite being told repeatedly that wasn't necessarily the case. Using broad brushes to paint one side in a subject so controversial will get you nowhere fast. Why bother doing it in the 1st place?
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#154New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 04:30:53
@crazylikeafox Said

Argue semantics all you want, but you're STILL painting the pro-life side as ONLY objecting to abortion based on religion despite being told repeatedly that wasn't necessarily the case. Using broad brushes to paint one side in a subject so controversial will get you nowhere fast. Why bother doing it in the 1st place?


What other basis are the pro-life side using?
crazylikeafox On June 02, 2017




McKinney, Texas
#155New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 04:41:07
@shinobinoz Said

What other basis are the pro-life side using?


The same evidence the pro-choice side uses. The only difference is the morals and opinions both sides have decided to take away from it. I know that doesn't bring either side any closer to an agreement, but then again there's a reason it's a controversy that shows no signs of ending.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#156New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 04:45:13
@crazylikeafox Said

The same evidence the pro-choice side uses. The only difference is the morals and opinions both sides have decided to take away from it. I know that doesn't bring either side any closer to an agreement, but then again there's a reason it's a controversy that shows no signs of ending.


Which is why we should stick to health & the woman's right to health & her doctor's consultation.
alk1975 On August 11, 2016




Jackson, Missouri
#157New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 05:10:39
@shinobinoz Said

Which is why we should stick to health & the woman's right to health & her doctor's consultation.



I happen to be a pro-life atheist, so the idea that it must be a religious viewpoint bugs me. :/

Despite being an atheist, I still believe life begins at conception and that life is human despite the fact that it is dependent on the mother for survival (a newborn is too, technically)

And I believe that all human life has a right to life, including the unborn. I think the right to life outweighs other rights, so where the mother's life is in danger, and it's life vs. life, I would opt on the side of the mother, as she has formed meaningful relationships already and her death will have the greater impact. But in the case of a woman's desire to not be pregnant, I don't buy the argument of "my body". Technically, it's your offspring's body that will be dying. An abortion does not alter a woman's body, and pregnancy is a temporary alteration of a woman's body. I believe then that the baby's right to life trumps a woman's right to choose.

I also find it appalling that the woman has complete control over whether or not the man becomes a father. While I get that so many many women have been left to care for children the man would have no part in, I think it is ultimately wrong to give her more say after the occurrence of pregnancy than the man gets. Either could have taken precautions before hand if they did not want a baby. If neither took precautions, or if those precautions failed, then both are faced with the possibility of becoming parents. If he wants the child and she doesn't, then why should she have the right to take that child from him in such a manner? If she wants the child but he doesn't want one, why should she have the ability to have that child and then push for child support? Equal rights should mean equal rights, and this is one area where men don't have a chance at equality so long as women have all the power to choose.

I also believe that fetus feels pain, early on, and that abortions are therefore cruel.

While I do think that there are women who have abortions who do not have major grief and regret over it, I also think the potential exists for a woman to suffer terrible mental anguish over the decision later on, and therefore better safe than sorry. Those who truly do not want a baby can give it up for adoption. Yes, I am well aware of the history of forced adoptions and the anguish the women went through giving their babies away as well. But that was forced. I dare say that a woman who would not suffer mental health issues for aborting her baby will also not suffer mental health issues for giving up her baby to adoption, especially with today's open policies.

We just have too many options for birth control for it to be a casual matter. I don't agree with a bill that would allow women to die in an attempt to bring their child to term (and let's face it, if mom dies, the baby is likely to die as well, so one death is better than two deaths). But ultimately, the idea that there is but one argument, and that a religious one, against abortion is inaccurate.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#158New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 05:16:18
@alk1975 Said

I happen to be a pro-life atheist, so the idea that it must be a religious viewpoint bugs me. :/

Despite being an atheist, I still believe life begins at conception and that life is human despite the fact that it is dependent on the mother for survival (a newborn is too, technically)

And I believe that all human life has a right to life, including the unborn. I think the right to life outweighs other rights, so where the mother's life is in danger, and it's life vs. life, I would opt on the side of the mother, as she has formed meaningful relationships already and her death will have the greater impact. But in the case of a woman's desire to not be pregnant, I don't buy the argument of "my body". Technically, it's your offspring's body that will be dying. An abortion does not alter a woman's body, and pregnancy is a temporary alteration of a woman's body. I believe then that the baby's right to life trumps a woman's right to choose.

I also find it appalling that the woman has complete control over whether or not the man becomes a father. While I get that so many many women have been left to care for children the man would have no part in, I think it is ultimately wrong to give her more say after the occurrence of pregnancy than the man gets. Either could have taken precautions before hand if they did not want a baby. If neither took precautions, or if those precautions failed, then both are faced with the possibility of becoming parents. If he wants the child and she doesn't, then why should she have the right to take that child from him in such a manner? If she wants the child but he doesn't want one, why should she have the ability to have that child and then push for child support? Equal rights should mean equal rights, and this is one area where men don't have a chance at equality so long as women have all the power to choose.

I also believe that fetus feels pain, early on, and that abortions are therefore cruel.

While I do think that there are women who have abortions who do not have major grief and regret over it, I also think the potential exists for a woman to suffer terrible mental anguish over the decision later on, and therefore better safe than sorry. Those who truly do not want a baby can give it up for adoption. Yes, I am well aware of the history of forced adoptions and the anguish the women went through giving their babies away as well. But that was forced. I dare say that a woman who would not suffer mental health issues for aborting her baby will also not suffer mental health issues for giving up her baby to adoption, especially with today's open policies.

We just have too many options for birth control for it to be a casual matter. I don't agree with a bill that would allow women to die in an attempt to bring their child to term (and let's face it, if mom dies, the baby is likely to die as well, so one death is better than two deaths). But ultimately, the idea that there is but one argument, and that a religious one, against abortion is inaccurate.


Thank you. Well stated.
And do note that I never said it was only a religious thing. However- you are not likely to find someone so rabidly pro-life as this law is written that is NOT religious.
However this law would go well beyond any of that and make abortion illegal for all circumstances and illegal for all doctors to perform. It also brings into "reality" that birth control could be seen as illegal.
alk1975 On August 11, 2016




Jackson, Missouri
#159New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 05:21:35
@shinobinoz Said

Thank you. Well stated.
And do note that I never said it was only a religious thing. However- you are not likely to find someone so rabidly pro-life as this law is written that is NOT religious.
However this law would go well beyond any of that and make abortion illegal for all circumstances and illegal for all doctors to perform. It also brings into "reality" that birth control could be seen as illegal.



yes, true, and I would not support a bill of this nature that is so strict. I find it hard to believe that it would pass given that getting abortion in generally made illegal has been so difficult thus far.
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#160New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 05:27:08
@alk1975 Said

yes, true, and I would not support a bill of this nature that is so strict. I find it hard to believe that it would pass given that getting abortion in generally made illegal has been so difficult thus far.


We are talking about Mississippi. The most religious, least educated, & poorest state in the nation. If it stands a chance anywhere. It would be there.
alk1975 On August 11, 2016




Jackson, Missouri
#161New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 05:28:36
@shinobinoz Said

We are talking about Mississippi. The most religious, least educated, & poorest state in the nation. If it stands a chance anywhere. It would be there.



true again. Spent a couple weeks in Mississippi once. Eye opening.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#162New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 05:28:48
Life does begin at conception. That's a scientific fact. The question is what rights does that life have.
jonnythan On August 02, 2014
Bringer of rad mirth


Deleted



Here and there,
#163New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 05:31:28
Most states in the South are mostly redneck, but that's balanced out by the presence of cities with a higher concentration of more educated, affluent, and liberal people.

Mississippi just doesn't have that.
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#164New Post! Nov 07, 2011 @ 15:39:15
@shinobinoz Said


And do note that I never said it was only a religious thing.



You insisted that any doctor refusing to perform an abortion was blinded by religion. How does that not make it only a religious thing?
shinobinoz On May 28, 2017
Stnd w Standing Rock





Wichita, Kansas
#165New Post! Nov 08, 2011 @ 02:29:04
@jonnythan Said

Life does begin at conception. That's a scientific fact. The question is what rights does that life have.


Little until birth.
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