Religion

@Erimitus Said



EB: ...those desiring self control can confirm that they are ...'real'

E: what is real Neo?

@Erimitus Said

EB: ...those desiring self control can confirm that they are not acting on only electrical and mechanical impulses -

E: how do we confirm that?

@Erimitus Said

EB:...those desiring self control can confirm that they are Not handicapped by the limitations of the body's design.



E: It seems to me that we are limited by the body's design....

E: Assuming free will there may be some advantages to self control. One of the first things we learn as children is self control. Those of us who cannot control our selves are drugged or institutionalized.

@PennieS Said

I know my husband's stance on religion. I respect what he believes, and our beliefs are very similar. When he and I met, neither of us were a christian, and had we said so we would have been hypocrites. To be perfectly honest, if asked I would have said I was, but I wasn't. I am still learning, every day a process. I have never been one to criticize another for their differences. However I do let people know what I believe one time and let it go. I believe no one will want to take the time to listen or try to understand if I harp on them. I was harped on about different things and it made me angry and bitter. I can honestly say though that as angry a person as I feel I can be at times, that having God in my life is bringing me a peace I have never known.

I really am not into organized religion. Religion causes wars. It causes argument. I like to say simply that I believe in and worship God. I am not perfect. I am a sinner. I can be prejudice, as I feel most people can honestly say to some point. For example, I find myself making judgments and I can even be critical. To some degree though, I feel that it is wise to judge situations and people or we could be misled by them.

When I have been on here in the past with my other ids, my last one being Cats_Eyes, I was a very different person. I would have never posted on religion and the very topic would have made me roll my eyes. We all can change. I have. It is a choice we have to make for ourselves. It cannot be forced, but when someone takes the time, wonder about what else they could be doing while they are spending the time to talk to you. Just a thought. I think it is nice to know God means something to someone, and I mean enough for that person to try to reach out to me. That's a nice thought.

Dee~ Mrs. Pennies

@Electric_Banana Said

Like I was pointing out to Snotme...don't curse the churches too much; they're keeping the psychopaths distracted and discouraging them from taking 'justice' into their own hands.

@Electric_Banana Said

I'm pretty sure something out there knows and isn't disclosing that information. This could be for the sake of sensitivity or it could be sinister.



I don't believe anyone has invented the means to prove this in a tangible manner. They hint that the drummer for Iron Butterfly did but he disappeared a short while after.

It basically comes down to the fact all of this iniates concern in us in the first place. If we're not indifferent to the idea of possibly being props, we most likely would only be props.

It's more than "I think, there for I am" it's "I worry, therefore I am."




First comes the desire to not want to respond to the bodies impulses.

Next comes the belief that we can ignore those impulses with practice and effort.


It's still important to be able to discern which mechanical impulses are to our benefit so that we don't ignore those.

@Erimitus Said


E: Conscious effort independent of the body would, I believe, also be independent of causality and allow for free will.

@ssnot_me Said

What I find really disturbing, is that most religions give people an 'excuse' to not take accountability for their own actions. And to add onto that, people really seem to like that aspect. It is always someone else's fault.

@Erimitus Said

E: I do not think we should ignore our drives but there might be some advantage to the ability to control our drive. (i.e., self control).

E: That which is beneficial is good. That which is not beneficial is other than good. That which is harmful is bad. That which is not harmful is other than bad.

E: If we arbitrarily quantitate good and bad on a scale of 1 – 5 and assign (1) the designation bad and (5) the designation good; we can say that action grater than (1) is other than bad and any action less than (5) is other than good. A correct action could be considered greater than (1) and the goal would be the highest possible balance of good over bad.

E: Our next question is how do be quantitiate this arbitrary morality. Reason and experience (both direct and indirect) might be a good approach. By examining the consequences of our past actions we can determine which actions were beneficial and which actions were harmful. Keeping in mind that we can never be absolutely certain of consequences and always ready to abandon, or adapt to new experience.

E: Our next question is; good or harmful to who. Are correct actions those that are beneficial to to individual or beneficial to the group? Am I selfish I my actions are beneficial to me but not to the group? Is there any advantage to being selfless?

***

Maybe I am therefore I think....

@Eaglebauer Said

RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable.

"What is your religion, my son?" inquired the Archbishop of Rheims.
"Pardon, monseigneur," replied Rochebriant; "I am ashamed of it."
"Then why do you not become an atheist?"
"Impossible! I should be ashamed of atheism."
"In that case, monsieur, you should join the Protestants."

-Ambrose Bierce

@Electric_Banana Said

It's not always the individuals' fault either which is the other extreme most often misconceived.

I look at it like this - we're inhabiting machines; rather you believe they were designed by a higher intelligence or were naturally formed the body and brain acts like a machine.

Machines can fail and machines require experience to learn how to manage properly.

You/I will make our fair share of mistakes but so will many others around us and so we will always be victim to the faults of others as well as ourselves.

My major concern is that some people take longer to 'Get Smart' and our government templates (both Western and Crown) are designed to continually disenfranchise those who were not intellectually perfect by age eighteen.

As example I don't believe that my lack of experience and poor work effort at age seventeen should reflect on my abilities at age forty-two but since the government keeps an ongoing track record, we are judged in our adult years for what we did during our less clever adolescent years.

If to continue damning and disenfranchising others in such a manner they should be informed at age eighteen that there is no chance for a quality life for them because the bureaucratic setup will never forgive them and offer them free euthanasia.

As for responsibility and religion.

In the end, if we are product of design, at the base factor of all we are guilty by design.

However, obviously, there should be great effort on our part to overcome that short-sighed design.

@ssnot_me Said

What I find really disturbing, is that most religions give people an 'excuse' to not take accountability for their own actions. And to add onto that, people really seem to like that aspect. It is always someone else's fault.

@ssnot_me Said


“Guilty by design”? That only sounds like an excuse, like what religion provides. Where do you even see design? Why would design imply guilt? That is like saying, my shirt is blue, therefor I am a bad driver. It makes no sense.