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Electric_Banana On February 05, 2024




, New Zealand
#31New Post! Aug 20, 2015 @ 18:36:27
@chaski Said




Like I was pointing out to Snotme...don't curse the churches too much; they're keeping the psychopaths distracted and discouraging them from taking 'justice' into their own hands.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#32New Post! Aug 20, 2015 @ 19:13:43
@galasTAray Said

All correct. But you have to believe, Erimitus! Have you no faith?! When has a little faith hurt anyone?!


We would not last very long if we did not believe. Believing, however, is not knowing.

You are, I BELIEVE, familiar with the bridge analogy.

I come to a bridge. I believe the bridge is safe. But I will not know that the bridge is safe until I cross it. I cross the bridge and it does not collapse. I know know that the bridge WAS safe. The next time I come to that bridge, based on past experience, I will believe that the bridge is safe; but I will not know for sure the bridge is safe until I cross it. Each time I cross that bridge my belief that it is safe is more certain; but I can never know with complete certainty that the bridge is safe. I can only know that the bridge WAS safe in the past.

Deities:

I know people who honestly believe in a supernatural being. Some even say that they not only believe that there is a deity they know what it looks like. I kind of envy them but I cannot believe and certainly cannot know. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. I cannot argue either way. What I do not believe, with almost complete certainty, is that if there is a supernatural being it is not an anthropomorphic entity who keeps my earned sin average and stays up night worrying about me.

Faith

I have faith in my perceptions. I have faith in my reasoning. I believe, based on past experience, that they are both faulty; but it is all I have to work with. Everything that I believe and know is based on faith.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#33New Post! Aug 20, 2015 @ 19:17:22
@Electric_Banana Said

Like I was pointing out to Snotme...don't curse the churches too much; they're keeping the psychopaths distracted and discouraging them from taking 'justice' into their own hands.



<chuckle>
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#34New Post! Aug 20, 2015 @ 19:37:02
EB: I think the main thing is would you personally want to murder someone in retaliation more so than spare their life?

E: I suppose that would depend on the situation and my state of mind at the time.

EB: The benefit of self control being this:

Even in nature herds will only run with lone animals they can trust to keep their cool.

E: ...and those who cannot be trusted are ostracized.

EB: ...those desiring self control can confirm that they are ...'real'

E: what is real Neo?

EB: ...those desiring self control can confirm that they are not acting on only electrical and mechanical impulses -

E: how do we confirm that?

EB:...those desiring self control can confirm that they are Not handicapped by the limitations of the body's design.

E: It seems to me that we are limited by the body's design....

E: Assuming free will there may be some advantages to self control. One of the first things we learn as children is self control. Those of us who cannot control our selves are drugged or institutionalized.
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#35New Post! Aug 21, 2015 @ 01:19:19
I come to a bridge. I believe the bridge is safe. But I will not know that the bridge is safe until I cross it. I cross the bridge and it does not collapse. I know know that the bridge WAS safe. The next time I come to that bridge, based on past experience, I will believe that the bridge is safe; but I will not know for sure the bridge is safe until I cross it. Each time I cross that bridge my belief that it is safe is more certain; but I can never know with complete certainty that the bridge is safe. I can only know that the bridge WAS safe in the past.

this kind of remind of scenes in movies like western movies or army movies, even sometimes like ' lord of the rings '. in the movie, our heroes or a group of people, even ' Indiana jones ' scene. the scene when they have across long ragged somewhat safe mile-long bridge that across the gorge. of below the bridge in the gorge run deep current river below. ( of course, every scene, you know that scene. they throw a pig across the gorge, you know they think the pig can fly over the gorge, but the pig fall to it's death. are you try to tell me, that I am only person on this forum seen these scenes in movies? I guess, I am! )

anyway, most of time, the group will sent one person at the time over the ragged bridge. of course, halfway, one group's leg caught a broken wooden panel of the bridge, he or she get out of the hole. the hero of the movie had to go and rescue him or her. then everybody follow the hero is last to get off the bridge, of course, the villain will try to fight the hero on the bridge. ( or the damn flying pig come out of the gorge, and knock off one of the people across the face, that person fall over the bridge to his or her death. I wish you all see the pig in action, it is a cool scene. that pig really smack the crap of the person's face. ) you know in these scene - you know nobody ever run across the bridge at this time. I think you would better change to survive. that faith! fate is get across the bridge or you fall into the gorge. why you seen the scenes in the movies, it take over 20 minutes in the movies? you know worst in the scene, when try to get a tank, car , or horses attract to a wagon. you know those scenes in western movies. you that movie want to believe it is dangerous. the people have faith the leader or their selves to get across the bridge.

I think most people who believe that if you come across a bridge, and you never across the bridge, of course, you going to hesitate to embark to challenge the bridge. if you travel a lot over the bridge, you will be afraid to go cross. it that how look at challenge, you have try first. you have to believe in yourself.

moral of the post - if you walk across a bridge, and see a flying pig come toward you. duck!!
chaski On about 19 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#36New Post! Aug 21, 2015 @ 01:40:30
@twilitezone911 Said

I come to a bridge. I believe the bridge is safe. But I will not know that the bridge is safe until I cross it. I cross the bridge and it does not collapse. I know know that the bridge WAS safe. The next time I come to that bridge, based on past experience, I will believe that the bridge is safe; but I will not know for sure the bridge is safe until I cross it. Each time I cross that bridge my belief that it is safe is more certain; but I can never know with complete certainty that the bridge is safe. I can only know that the bridge WAS safe in the past.



For me this bridge thing falls in the category of so what?

I come to a bridge. I either want or need to cross it.

Or I either don't want or don't need cross it

If I want or need to cross it then that is what I do.

if I do not want or don't need cross it, I do not.

While it is true that my perception of the bridge being safe or not being safe might impact whether or not I cross the bridge, I do not waste time on that...it seems to me that wasting time on that sort of thing fall in the realm of OCD.

As to the god connection...personally I am looking forward to endless darkness, but will be happy to meet with the original trinity should they want to waste their time on me.
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#37New Post! Aug 21, 2015 @ 02:25:01
For me this bridge thing falls in the category of so what?

I really didn't understand what the big deal with the bridge, either. the bridge more like ' the road not taken ' concept to me. either you go across the bridge or not. you could going the long way, not taken the bridge at all. really your choice - we all face our bridges one time are other. so what, the better concept for me, would be you fall off a horse or a bicycle, and just get back on. that is a best way of looking at things in life, I use that concept in my daily life.
galastaray On June 08, 2016
honey bucket


Deleted



Honey Bucket, Reunion
#38New Post! Aug 21, 2015 @ 14:54:49
@Erimitus Said

We would not last very long if we did not believe. Believing, however, is not knowing.

You are, I BELIEVE, familiar with the bridge analogy.

I come to a bridge. I believe the bridge is safe. But I will not know that the bridge is safe until I cross it. I cross the bridge and it does not collapse. I know know that the bridge WAS safe. The next time I come to that bridge, based on past experience, I will believe that the bridge is safe; but I will not know for sure the bridge is safe until I cross it. Each time I cross that bridge my belief that it is safe is more certain; but I can never know with complete certainty that the bridge is safe. I can only know that the bridge WAS safe in the past.

Deities:

I know people who honestly believe in a supernatural being. Some even say that they not only believe that there is a deity they know what it looks like. I kind of envy them but I cannot believe and certainly cannot know. Maybe there is and maybe there isn't. I cannot argue either way. What I do not believe, with almost complete certainty, is that if there is a supernatural being it is not an anthropomorphic entity who keeps my earned sin average and stays up night worrying about me.

Faith

I have faith in my perceptions. I have faith in my reasoning. I believe, based on past experience, that they are both faulty; but it is all I have to work with. Everything that I believe and know is based on faith.



All correct again.

But I do not think I believe out of experience or habit, as Hume explained the reason for causation.

Instead, I believe out of a yearn and out of hope. I do yearn for and hope for karma, morality, goodness, etc. I know full well that none may exist absolutely and I sometimes do not believe as well. Nonetheless, I always hope. Telos is a good thing, I think.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#39New Post! Aug 21, 2015 @ 19:03:34
@twilitezone911 Said

I come to a bridge. I believe the bridge is safe. But I will not know that the bridge is safe until I cross it. I cross the bridge and it does not collapse. I know know that the bridge WAS safe. The next time I come to that bridge, based on past experience, I will believe that the bridge is safe; but I will not know for sure the bridge is safe until I cross it. Each time I cross that bridge my belief that it is safe is more certain; but I can never know with complete certainty that the bridge is safe. I can only know that the bridge WAS safe in the past.

this kind of remind of scenes in movies like western movies or army movies, even sometimes like ' lord of the rings '. in the movie, our heroes or a group of people, even ' Indiana jones ' scene. the scene when they have across long ragged somewhat safe mile-long bridge that across the gorge. of below the bridge in the gorge run deep current river below. ( of course, every scene, you know that scene. they throw a pig across the gorge, you know they think the pig can fly over the gorge, but the pig fall to it's death. are you try to tell me, that I am only person on this forum seen these scenes in movies? I guess, I am! )

anyway, most of time, the group will sent one person at the time over the ragged bridge. of course, halfway, one group's leg caught a broken wooden panel of the bridge, he or she get out of the hole. the hero of the movie had to go and rescue him or her. then everybody follow the hero is last to get off the bridge, of course, the villain will try to fight the hero on the bridge. ( or the damn flying pig come out of the gorge, and knock off one of the people across the face, that person fall over the bridge to his or her death. I wish you all see the pig in action, it is a cool scene. that pig really smack the crap of the person's face. ) you know in these scene - you know nobody ever run across the bridge at this time. I think you would better change to survive. that faith! fate is get across the bridge or you fall into the gorge. why you seen the scenes in the movies, it take over 20 minutes in the movies? you know worst in the scene, when try to get a tank, car , or horses attract to a wagon. you know those scenes in western movies. you that movie want to believe it is dangerous. the people have faith the leader or their selves to get across the bridge.

I think most people who believe that if you come across a bridge, and you never across the bridge, of course, you going to hesitate to embark to challenge the bridge. if you travel a lot over the bridge, you will be afraid to go cross. it that how look at challenge, you have try first. you have to believe in yourself.

moral of the post - if you walk across a bridge, and see a flying pig come toward you. duck!!


<chuckle>

I see LuckyCharms has taught you to say he or she. We males can be trained. It requires patients and reward and punishment but we are trainable. Have a cookie.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#40New Post! Aug 21, 2015 @ 19:05:01
@twilitezone911 Said

For me this bridge thing falls in the category of so what?

I really didn't understand what the big deal with the bridge, either. the bridge more like ' the road not taken ' concept to me. either you go across the bridge or not. you could going the long way, not taken the bridge at all. really your choice - we all face our bridges one time are other. so what, the better concept for me, would be you fall off a horse or a bicycle, and just get back on. that is a best way of looking at things in life, I use that concept in my daily life.



The point was that we believe but we cannot know until we test it.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#41New Post! Aug 21, 2015 @ 19:17:58
@galasTAray Said

All correct again.

But I do not think I believe out of experience or habit, as Hume explained the reason for causation.

Instead, I believe out of a yearn and out of hope. I do yearn for and hope for karma, morality, goodness, etc. I know full well that none may exist absolutely and I sometimes do not believe as well. Nonetheless, I always hope. Telos is a good thing, I think.



All correct again.

But I do not think I believe out of experience or habit, as Hume explained the reason for causation.

Instead, I believe out of a yearn and out of hope. I do yearn for and hope for karma, morality, goodness, etc. I know full well that none may exist absolutely and I sometimes do not believe as well. Nonetheless, I always hope. Telos is a good thing, I think.


galasTAray: …I do not think I believe out of experience or habit, as Hume explained the reason for causation.

Erimitus: I have not read ‘The Reason for Causation’. Would you mind giving a brief summary?


galasTAray: …I believe out of a yearn and out of hope.

Erimitus: as good a reason as any to believe.


galasTAray: I do yearn for and hope for karma, morality, goodness, etc. I know full well that none may exist absolutely and I sometimes do not believe as well. Nonetheless, I always hope. Telos is a good thing, I think.

Erimitus: My belief is that I have a meaningless existence in a pointless universe. We seem to disagree. It would be really boring if we all agreed. I suppose I hope but I am not sure what I hope for. Maybe I hope that my death will not be to painful.

I will see if I can find ‘The Reason for Causation’. Thanks
twilitezone911 On March 25, 2019




Saint Louis, Missouri
#42New Post! Aug 21, 2015 @ 19:29:26
The point was that we believe but we cannot know until we test it.

yes, that is true. yes, I believe we are test in anything in life to grow to the person we are.
chaski On about 19 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#43New Post! Aug 21, 2015 @ 19:40:00
@Erimitus Said

The point was that we believe but we cannot know until we test it.


As you have pointed out, even then we cannot know.
Electric_Banana On February 05, 2024




, New Zealand
#44New Post! Aug 22, 2015 @ 15:47:39
@Erimitus Said



EB: ...those desiring self control can confirm that they are not acting on only electrical and mechanical impulses -

E: how do we confirm that?


That we can want/not want, ask questions and experience concern. Now there is a possibility that even that part of us that is concerned may be artificially generated but I'm fairly confident that all of this isn't that pointless or wasteful.

I do suspect those notions that come to me, during times that I would otherwise would be at ease, may be provided from unknown external sources but not that part of me that experiences frustration from those random bouts of antagonizing.

@Erimitus Said


EB:...those desiring self control can confirm that they are Not handicapped by the limitations of the body's design.

E: It seems to me that we are limited by the body's design....




We are but I would suspect our bodies to be a lot more dangerous without our conscious effort; a conscious effort most likely independent of the body.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#45New Post! Aug 24, 2015 @ 17:11:28
@twilitezone911 Said

The point was that we believe but we cannot know until we test it.

yes, that is true. yes, I believe we are test in anything in life to grow to the person we are.



Trial and error for the most part.
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