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Religion Vs Science student study, please help

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Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#46New Post! Mar 26, 2012 @ 11:09:25
@futilevoice Said

I kinda understand what he is saying. I think.

There should be no inconsistency between revelation from God and science because of the same source. If there seems to be any disharmony, then it is because either something is not properly understood or a religion has been altered by human or a certain scientific research is not fully blossomed.

He means all reality concerning science and religion come from the same source.(GOD) If there are contradictions then it is because of human failings and manipulation of the facts.

Revelation purifies thoughts.
Meaning when you have given up all fantasy and illusions of reality the truth will be revealed to you.

Intellect and wisdom has three partners.
Observation, experimentation, and historical reference.

Hopefully I was not too far of target.



response to futilevoice post #49

There should be no inconsistency between revelation from God and science because of the same source. If there seems to be any disharmony, then it is because either something is not properly understood or a religion has been altered by human or a certain scientific research is not fully blossomed.

futilevoice all reality concerning science and religion come from the same source.(GOD) If there are contradictions then it is because of human failings and manipulation of the facts.

Erimitus: Yes, that makes sense. I do not believe that English is his native language (or maybe it is a dialect that I am not familiar with)

Revelation purifies thoughts.


futilevoice …when you have given up all fantasy and illusions of reality the truth will be revealed to you.

Erimitus: Revelation means giving up illusions? Purified thought is free of fantasy and illusion? It is not clear to me what is meant by revelation in this context.



Intellect and wisdom has three partners.
Observation, experimentation, and historical reference.


Erimitus: Seems to be the scientific method. Observation, hypotheses, experiment, historical reference (comparing new data with old data)

Erimitus: Rather fun try to figure out what he is saying but the post was long and my attention span is short.

Erimitus: Thanks
salamsourceofpeace On December 08, 2016




, British Indian Ocean Territo
#47New Post! Mar 27, 2012 @ 19:59:12
Nature of Revelation…Revelation is Means of Communion between God and Human.
=============================================================================================
Peace be on you.

1-Intellect and wisdom has three partners.
i)For worldly matters, partner of wisdom is observation and experiment.
ii)For matters related to eras and times, the partner of wisdom is history.
iii)For matters of ways-of-true-knowledge, guidance and spirituality, the partner of wisdom is revelation --- of course, the preserved one.


2- There are three kinds of worlds.
a) Visible world- which can be detected by senses.
b) Invisible world- which can be perceived through thoughts and intellect.
c) Latent world - dreams, visions and revelations are windows to this world.



3- Human is granted built-in interest to know about these three world and appropriate ways and means to find the secrets of these three worlds are also provided.


4- It never happens that only by pondering at natural laws, people can find the real truths about absolute realities and beliefs. Thus time to time, true morals and beliefs are taught by the Merciful, the Wise God through the revelations upon His faithful pure servants.


5- Human are granted the brainpower to understand material matters, likewise they are gifted with powers to have visions and revelations. When brain power stops at its limits then at that point God helps His true and faithful servants with visions and revelations to take them to level of Certainty. Thus seekers progresses from the initial stage of “having plain knowledge” to final stage of “certainty through personal experience”. To guide toward such Certainty, God sends holy characters, the holy Prophets / Messengers for the guidance of humanity. Thus the true-philosophy is the one which uses both of these aspects.


6-God speaks all times. For example, He spoke to the holy Abraham, holy mothers of holy Moses and holy Jesus. (peace be on them). The blessings of teachings of Holy Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) continue and God speaks to the followers who seek God with pure heart and full peace.


7- The Merciful God has given two types of powers to human to seek Him; Intellectual powers, whose source is brain and Spiritual powers whose source is heart (i.e, mind or conscience). The purity of spiritual powers depends on purity of heart. In the very pure heart, blessings of the Source of blessings (God) reflect. By viewing the wisely made universe, the brain powers reach at the conclusion that there should be a Wise God. The attentive spiritual powers of hearts gain the speech of God and (spiritually) see the signs of God…….There are many people who still have to work upward in purity; they still have worldly greed, arrogance, selfishness and other moral weaknesses; they are slow in paying dues of people and God. Therefore because of such curtains between them and God, they do not get blessing of speech of God. …….But since Divine-Grant does not want to waste human nature, it has granted to people (regardless of purity) the infrequent true dreams and revelations as sample-seeds. So that they should know there exists a way of progress and proof to have faith in prophets’ teachings.


8-The ways and means are provided to fulfill human body’s desires. Likewise desires of soul (which is love and worship of God) are granted its ways and means. It is revelation from God and His fresh signs.


9- Revelation is not the result of thoughts. It is not like the thinking process of an able poet, who, when writes a single line of a poem (subject could be virtuous or sinful !), second line comes to his/her thoughts. Similarly, the continuously coming of stories to the writers are not revelations….. Thus good or bad thoughts are not revelations.


10-What is Revelation? Revelation is Pure-Powerful-God’s live and powerful talk and dialogue with His exalted servant (or whom He wants to exalt). When this talk and dialogue is abundant, continuous, free of impurities and is not just insufficient few drivel words, and it is pleasant, wise and in dignified words Then it is words of God. With these words, God give comfort to His servant and reveal Himself upon the servant………….Sometimes words of God comes as trial and does not carry all and blessed means alongwith. Through that arrangement, the servant at his elementary stage is given a bit of revelation so that he may make his condition like real revelation-receivers or stumble……..Thousands of virtuous people have been granted revelations but their status is not same in the eyes of God. The pure Prophets who are grade-one recipients of revelation from God are of different status…..Superiority is based on that truthfulness, purity and faithfulness which only God knows.


11-Revelation requires ability and compatibility. Light of revelations falls on enlighten ones: “ And when there comes to them a Sign, they say: we will not believe until we are given the like of that which Allah’s Messengers have been given. Allah knows best where to place His Message…..” (6:125 partly)


12-True revelation is accompanied by evidence of continuous acts of God.-- It comes when heart of servant of God is melted and passions flow towards God like pure water.-- True revelation brings delight and assurance with it.-- It enters into heart like iron stick.-- Language of true revealtion is eloquent and free of error.-- It falls on heart with strike, power and grandeur.-- It contains effects of divine powers and it foretells.-- The recipient continuously increases in virtues and morals.-- The each faculty of the recipient is enlightened; a new life begins which gives general benefit to humanity.-- The true revelation has continuity and dialogue with Kind God.-- The recipient is never coward because of surety of company of God.-- True revelation brings knowledge, wisdom, respect, awe and blessings from God.


13-Real self-corrections and following in the light of Allah’s Book, the Holy Quran, serving faith, not being earthly, keeping love with Allah’s Holy Prophet (s.a.w.), being clear of arrogance and show offs, extremely humbly wanting the only Grandeur of Allah and getting consumed in this path eventually result in getting blessed revelations.


14- Dreams from God are accompanied with divine signs of purity.


15- Do revelations hinder progress of thought process?..... No, the followers of true revelation are never stopped to do intellectual researches. Instead, revelations help them to find realities of things. In the light of revelation, brain power finds many real possibilities and does not get astray: “ In the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of the night and the day there are indeed Signs for people of understanding.”---- “Those who remember Allah while standing, sitting and (lying) on their sides, and ponder over the creation of the heavens and the earth (praying) Our Lord, Thou hast not created this in vain; (nay) Holy art Thou; save us, then, from the punishment of the Fire.” (3: 191-192)


16-“And it is not for a human that Allah should speak to him except by revelation or from behind veil or by sending a messenger to reveal by His command what He pleases. Surely, He is High, Wise.” (42:52)

“Surely who say: Our Lord is Allah, and then remain steadfast, the angels descend on them, (saying): Fear ye not, nor grieve, and rejoice in the Gardens that you were promised.-- We are your friends in this life and in the Hereafter. Therein you will have all that you will ask for.-- An entertainment from the Most Forgiving, the Merciful.” (41: 31 to 33)

“……O my Lord, increase me in knowledge.”(20: 115 partly)

Reference and for more related reading:
1-Benefited from the writings of Promised Reviver of Faith @ alislam.org
2-Please search separately:
i)" Divine Revelation and Rationality "
ii) " Epilogue. I N THE END "
iii) " The Concept of Revelation in Islam " in alislam.org
salamsourceofpeace On December 08, 2016




, British Indian Ocean Territo
#48New Post! Apr 10, 2012 @ 07:40:29
Peace be on all.

When I open the page https://www.theforumsite.com/forum/list/Religion-Philosophy/6184 for ... Sticky: Religion Vs Science student study, please help
MikeW

I find the information that

Replies
51
Sat Apr 07, 2012 @ 09:11
by jwprayer

--------------------------------------

but the last reply which I can see is
#51
Mar 28, 2012 @ 00:59:12
Nature of Revelation…Revelation is Means of Communion between God and Human.
by salamsourceofpeace

??????
treebee On April 13, 2015
Government Hooker

Moderator




London, United Kingdom
#49New Post! Apr 10, 2012 @ 08:02:48
yeah, because we have a spammer blocked.
salamsourceofpeace On December 08, 2016




, British Indian Ocean Territo
#50New Post! Apr 10, 2012 @ 08:05:47
Thank you.
clydefern On May 15, 2012




Owensville,
#51New Post! Apr 23, 2012 @ 21:24:25
I'm brand new to this forum, this is my first post, but I've just got to say, I don't know what would be so funny about your hinder hole falling out.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#52New Post! Jul 13, 2012 @ 09:16:49
Arguing about science with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.


It doesn't matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon is going to knock all the pieces over, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious.


.
woodss On February 26, 2024




,
#53New Post! Sep 02, 2012 @ 14:57:24
@Jennifer1984 Said

Arguing about science with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.


It doesn't matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon is going to knock all the pieces over, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious.


.


Um yeah good point and this from a Christian I wonder what Madass Biker says about that.
wirelessguru1 On November 01, 2018




Somewhere in, California
#54New Post! Sep 02, 2012 @ 19:37:38
@Jennifer1984 Said

Arguing about science with Christians is like playing chess with a pigeon.


It doesn't matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon is going to knock all the pieces over, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious.


.


Richard142 On February 15, 2015




Greater London, United Kingdom
#55New Post! Sep 02, 2012 @ 20:14:18
@MikeW Said

Thanks very much, I need as many people as possible, so if anyone feels like the can spare 5 mins I would really appreciate it.

Many interesting questions. A tribute to both you and the Open University. A place for great hearts and open minds willing to foster debate about traditionally taboo subjects. No debate should be taboo in an open society willing to recognise that few truthes are simple. Possibly Newtonian laws are an exception! That and the perodic table as the basis of universal order.
I did the 50 question survey. I'd like the results to be available plus I'd have liked to be able to save my answered questions, or to be able to repeat the survey and then keep my answers.
A great design with some similar questions but rephrased to test consistency. An essential component in any compitent survey and research project, be it for philosophy or science or combining both.
Thanks for the link.
salamsourceofpeace On December 08, 2016




, British Indian Ocean Territo
#56New Post! Nov 22, 2012 @ 18:07:41
@salamsourceofpeace Said

The True and Preserved Religion Provides True Philosophy and Invites to Ponder upon Natural Phenomenon to Draw Benefits for Humanity.
=============================================================================================
Peace be on you.
There should be no contradiction between words and works of same God. That is, there should be no inconsistency between revelation from God and science because of the same source. If there seems to be any disharmony, then it is because either something is not properly understood or a religion has been altered by human or a certain scientific research is not fully blossomed.


Through the ages, religion has been the source of moral and spiritual values. However, since the start of modern era of research, it has been thought that there is certain amount of conflict between science and religion. According to the Holy Quran ( all times preserved by God)*, there is none.


Harmony between Revelation and Knowledge is the root of Holy Quran. Among the very first revealed verses of it:



What has happened to rest of the above answer please?
calonso On January 16, 2014




Orlando, Florida
#57New Post! Dec 28, 2012 @ 21:00:41
Some of these questions are hard to answer, you might want to add a neutral button because some of these questions I didn't have an opinion of and it was hard having to decide what to put, for example;

22. "Abandoning a previous belief is a sign of strong character"
It is not my place to decide that and I wouldn't know enough information to make a proper judgement for that anyway. I didn't like being forced to disagree or agree even if just slightly.

30. "Most people just don't know what's good for them"
Again, this is a judgement call that is not my place to make.

33. "I believe that loyalty to one's ideals and principles is more important than "open-mindedness"
Why do they have to be separated? You can be open-minded while maintaining loyalty to your principles.

35. "My beliefs would not have been very different if I had been raised by a different set of parents."
I can't know this for sure so I can neither confirm or deny.

37. "I believe that the different ideas of right and wrong that people in other societies have may be valid for them"
This is an unfair question. Ofcourse I think some other societies have a messed up notion of right and wrong. There's a tribe that believes the father should be the first one to pop their daughters cherry. I will never think that is valid but as far as it being valid for THEM, is not my place to decide. But in me disagreeing with this question, it can be taken the wrong way. Another instance where a neutral button would have been appropriate.

38. "Even if my environment (family, neighbor, schools) had been different, I probably would have the same religious views."
Again, I can't know this for sure and so can't have an actual opinion of it. My parents didn't steer me to any particular belief and I came to Christianity on my own but I don't consider myself different or more special than anyone else to assume I wouldn't have been like them if put in their shoes.

44. "Someone who attacks my beliefs is not insulting me personally."
It happens.

47. "Beliefs should always be revised in response to new information or evidence."
I both agree and disagree with this depending on the situation. New information and "evidence" doesn't always mean what people think it does.

I believe this survey will be biased if it doesn't include a neutral option because both religious and scientific people have issues they can neither confirm or deny and it is unfair to make them have to choose.
Dogg On April 21, 2013




Los Angeles,
#58New Post! Apr 21, 2013 @ 17:42:44
Do you mean people who think scientifically rather than spiritually or people who employ both modes of thinking? How can such a thing be measured?
Reviso On November 23, 2014

Banned



Trenton, Canada
#59New Post! May 21, 2013 @ 00:23:15
Nevertheless, the religion opinion makes out that the beliefs we interpret for our minds (made up) have it that part of the belief is a matter of the very reasoning why we believed something like we said (logos) we just did. Believing that we agree with the questions in the above survey is important too. It is important to understand our explanations for the choices made from multiple choices.


Were we being indoctrinated for instance to lie to ourselves?
CoG On April 25, 2015
Troll



Pensacola, Florida
#60New Post! Apr 24, 2015 @ 19:55:20
I won't do your survey but I have done religious debating and evangelized for Christianity for years mike and one of my pet interests is psychology and religion.

you can prove Christianity is true by studying what God says versus what Christianity says.


Google christianity versus modern psychology and read the two page comparison at the-gospel.org site.

It is really an eye opener.

I don't know why people forget the mistakes psychiatry has made like ordering lobotomies for people or shock therapy.

Jesus is better and that is one of the reasons why I am a. missionary on the net.

---signed


child of god
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