Obama calls Romney a "bulls***ter" in Rolling Stone interview

Fair enough. I like truth, and those that seek it. Agreeing with me is not a prerequisite for friendship, but turning on and using your brain is.

His problem is not that you disagree. It's your bigotry.

A pointless and false accusation, to be honest.

No, I really don't think so.

Fair enough. You are free to believe as you will about my attitudes and ideas. One great thing about the notion of freedom to which I adhere, is that you, me, and everyone else have the freedom to be wrong, and to proclaim that wrongness as loudly as we like. Where I disagree I will dissent, as others are allowed to do with my ideas. This is all good, civil, mature human behaviour. Only when it becomes proclamations aimed at inciting violence do I oppose it. If that is how you define bigotry, then, so be it... I do not see it that way.

No, that's not how I define bigotry. I don't think you're a bigot because you disagree with me. I think you're a bigot because of your religious intolerance.

Again, fair enough. I assume you are claiming I am a bigot toward those that claim to be a Muslim?

That would be a safe assumption.

It would be a wrong assumption, but you are free to carry on assuming it.

It's not wrong. You are intolerant of the religion, period. You come up with all sorts of reasons your total intolerance of Islam and Muslims is logical and intellectual, but it's not. It's no different than being intolerant of black people, women, or anything else.

That could be true if being black or a woman was an idea to which people hold. It probably is not though.

Islam, however, is an idea to which people hold.

Bingo!

Ideas, ideas! Plural- you know like christianity is not ONE idea.

And it's your IDEA of Islam which is bigoted.

This is true, however, there are certain ideas that are necessary in order for someone to *be* a Christian. Calling yourself one is not one of those.

To be Christian, one must believe that Christ died, and rose again, for example. No matter what else, one must have that as a basic belief, as that is part of what defines the idea of Christendom.

To be existentialist, one must not merely claim to be one, but, rather, believe that one does not *have* a nature, but *creates* their nature by their actions.

To be a Muslim, likewise, requires certain ideas be adhered to.

For example, one must believe that la ilaha illallah muhammadur rasulullah (there is no God but allah and Muhammad is the messenger of allah).

One must also accept that it is not permissible for a Muslim to disagree with Muhamamd or allah once they have decreed a matter (see Surah 33:36 for confirmation of this).

One must also, therefore, believe that a day will come where Muslims commit genocide against Jews because Muhammad categorically stated that such is the case. See for example, Sahih Bukhari 4.52:177.

One must also believe that capturing and raping non Muslim women is good, because Muhamamd did it, and told his followers it was halal (see surah 4:24 and its companion hadith, for example).

One must also believe that pedophilia is good, because Muhammad said it is (see surah 65:4 and hadith dealing with Muhammad's relationship with Aisha for example).

Now, a Muslim who disagrees with Muhammad has "strayed into plain error," as disagreement is haram - impermissible. Islam, therefore, decrees, in and of itself, what constitutes a Muslim way of being. It is not you, or the media or "The Unicorn of Politically Correct Knowledge" that you listen to - nor is it me. Nor, for that matter, is it someone claiming to be a Muslim. The texts of Islam define the idea, and define what one must be to be an adherent of that idea.

Until you can wrap your head around the fact that a Muslim is defined by Islamic text, and is a slave of allah, and is not free, you will not truly understand the Islamic religion. Islam is not predicated upon western ideas of freedom, but of obedience to the will of allah and the pronouncements and decrees of allah and Muhammad.

Many people that claim to be Muslim, are almost certainly not, and will almost certainly join you and I in Islamic hell, if indeed, allah is a god of any kind in the manner in which it is claimed in Islamic texts.

You have said that you know Muslims that are not bad people - I think you may even have claimed that you have or had, Muslim friends. You are wrong. No Muslim can *actually* be your friend - if he *is* your friend, then he is not a Muslim (see for example, surah 5:51 and 5:80 for example).

Now, I have no doubt that this idea is repugnant to you. To be quite honest, it is repugnant to me also, as I adhere to ideas based on personal freedom.

Doubtless, you would say that it is wrong and reprehensible of me to say your Islamic friends are either not your friends, or, are not Islamic. And, I agree that defining people this way is repugnant. But, what you *need* to understand, is that it is not me that says this, it is the texts of Islam.

*IF* the texts of Islam did not say these things, then, neither would I. *IF* Islam allowed people to be our friends, I would say that your Islamic friends can be both Islamic and your friend. However, Islam, as it is defined by its texts, says that this is not the case.

Again, I say to you - I do not want Islam to be defined this way. That does not change the fact that it is.





Maybe, but it is an idea that is very strongly supported by Islamic text. I have sought alternative views of it, but have so far failed to find one that stands up to scrutiny.

I have said this many times before, but I do not ever claim to be infallible. I *could* be wrong. I have not, though, seen anything as yet that is even plausible as an alternative view of what Islam is by anyone who knows and understands the subject.

Indeed, I would argue that, to the absolute best of my knowledge, it could not be done, unless one repudiated all of the extra materials of Islam (the hadith, the tafsirs and the biography of Muhammad), and ignored the doctrine of abrogation and the order of revelation in the koran.

Again, the point I think you fail to understand is that it is not me that defines a Muslim as anything - it is allah, as revealed in the koran (and this is true even though I thoroughly and absolutely repudiate allah as being anything like what he claims to be - I believe him to be little more than the product of Muhammad's delusions).