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Cpat92 On August 14, 2019
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#46New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 16:48:04
@Leon Said

If Trump were to lose the election on Nov 3, 2020 (which midterms and polls indicate he will), he will almost almost certainly declare the results illegitimate . While it will be easy for security to simply escort him out of the White House on Jan 20, 2021 if he flat out refuses to leave, it’s what he will do in the 2.5 months between Nov 3 and Jan 20 that could be scary. Will he go ballistic on national emergency declarations, pardon everyone, kill treaties, start a war, and/or generally adhere to a scorched earth policy on everything that would makes everything outrageous he has done up to this point pale in comparison? I wouldn’t put it past him.



While I know anything is possible, he won't be idiotic enough to do all of that in a short amount of time. Then again, I could be wrong. Am I already wrong? Only time would tell.
mrmhead 14 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#47New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 17:16:28
@bob_the_fisherman Said

If he does run (and I'm not entirely convinced he will),


You've said that twice now - "If"

He has already said he's running - he said so, and filed on the day of his inauguration.

He's been holding campaign rallies and fund raising events for two years.

Mike Pence will be his VP.
DiscordTiger On about 2 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#48New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 17:29:57
@Eaglebauer Said

I think people see Hillary as the figurehead for what went on though. Is that fair? Maybe, maybe not...but the public tends to use synecdoche (cashing in my ten dollar words) in politics and when they refer to Hillary in 2016 are often referring to "the left." It's the same with people crediting Obama for the capture of Bin Laden. He didn't take a rifle and go capture him. He was in office when it happened.

I agree it's wrong to say that Hillary was refusing to accept the results personally, at least initially. But when the Green Party managed to get a recount on the table, Clinton did jump at the chance, didn't she? As soon as the momentum was built behind the idea by Stein, the Clinton campaign did in fact enthusiastically join in pushing for recounts in several key states.

The campaign used a lot of colorful language to dodge any commitment to contesting but in the end...Clinton did push for a recount...that's just a fact.

Rioting in the streets? Nah...that didn't happen. A lot of protesting...a lot of people getting upset...which is nothing to call anyone out for I believe. But no, no rioting, I agree.


I guess part of it is I don’t think asking for a recount is failing to accept the legitimacy. If you keep saying/doing things after the recount then it goes into not participating in the peaceful transfer of power.
Like if she rushed trump at the inauguration and tried to be sworn in instead.


Though I didn’t read “what happened” but it sounded more like a post Mortum than wanting a do over.

But yeah I see how she can be seen a a figurehead. That could be it.
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#49New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 18:01:15
@mrmhead Said

You've said that twice now - "If"

He has already said he's running - he said so, and filed on the day of his inauguration.

He's been holding campaign rallies and fund raising events for two years.

Mike Pence will be his VP.


Your problem is that you don't understand the thinking of the Trump follower.

Here is how it goes:

1. Everything Trump says is real, factual and true, and "we" love this because he is the greatest President ever.

2. But if somehow what Trump says is not real, factual and true, "we" don't care because it should have been real, factual and true... which is good enough.

3. And, whatever "we" think Trump is going to do doesn't really matter, because whatever he actually does is the greatest ever because he can literally do nothing wrong.

Oh and one more thing: SHRILLARY!!!
mrmhead 14 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#50New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 20:02:27
@chaski Said

Your problem is that you don't understand the thinking of the Trump follower.

Here is how it goes:

1. Everything Trump says is real, factual and true, and "we" love this because he is the greatest President ever.

2. But if somehow what Trump says is not real, factual and true, "we" don't care because it should have been real, factual and true... which is good enough.

3. And, whatever "we" think Trump is going to do doesn't really matter, because whatever he actually does is the greatest ever because he can literally do nothing wrong.

Oh and one more thing: SHRILLARY!!!


Ahhh ... so if something ugly comes up and he decides not to run (aka drop out, quit, admit defeat), it will be OK because he never said he really was running, he just said he was running, and filed with the FEC and raised money and had big parties to bask in the glory of his trump-ness
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#51New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 20:34:31
@mrmhead Said

Ahhh ... so if something ugly comes up and he decides not to run (aka drop out, quit, admit defeat), it will be OK because he never said he really was running, he just said he was running, and filed with the FEC and raised money and had big parties to bask in the glory of his trump-ness



Now you're getting it.
bob_the_fisherman On about 11 hours ago
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#52New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 21:02:24
@chaski Said

Your problem is that you don't understand the thinking of the Trump follower.

Here is how it goes:

1. Everything Trump says is real, factual and true, and "we" love this because he is the greatest President ever.

2. But if somehow what Trump says is not real, factual and true, "we" don't care because it should have been real, factual and true... which is good enough.

3. And, whatever "we" think Trump is going to do doesn't really matter, because whatever he actually does is the greatest ever because he can literally do nothing wrong.

Oh and one more thing: SHRILLARY!!!



This entire post is absolutely, completely, 100% right. Except for points 1,2&3.

I know Trump says he is going to run and is acting like he is going to, and maybe he will. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't though.

I guess to me it all comes down to what is in it for him. If I was Trump I would be out to do as much as I could term 1 - and I am not sure Trump is doing enough of that tbh. He's not hard enough on China or the Sauds, although with Russia and Iran I think he's ok. I'm happy with the little bit of progress on NK because anything is better than he "nogress" we got from everyone else over the last few decades. Syria? He's been iffy. I don't think just up and running is feasible, but his desire to get out I 100% support.

Anyway, if I was him, some time out from the whole weird Primary? system you guys have where members of your parties openly attack each other for a few months hoping for the chance to be king, if I was Trump, I'd start making subtle comments to the effect of possibly not running.

All the lies and constant attacks from an hysterical media that are nothing but DNC shills would be wearying after awhile.
Leon On August 16, 2019




San Diego, California
#53New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 21:06:08
@bob_the_fisherman Said

This entire post is absolutely, completely, 100% right. Except for points 1,2&3.

I know Trump says he is going to run and is acting like he is going to, and maybe he will. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't though.

I guess to me it all comes down to what is in it for him. If I was Trump I would be out to do as much as I could term 1 - and I am not sure Trump is doing enough of that tbh. He's not hard enough on China or the Sauds, although with Russia and Iran I think he's ok. I'm happy with the little bit of progress on NK because anything is better than he "nogress" we got from everyone else over the last few decades. Syria? He's been iffy. I don't think just up and running is feasible, but his desire to get out I 100% support.

Anyway, if I was him, some time out from the whole weird Primary? system you guys have where members of your parties openly attack each other for a few months hoping for the chance to be king, if I was Trump, I'd start making subtle comments to the effect of possibly not running.

All the lies and constant attacks from an hysterical media that are nothing but DNC shills would be wearying after awhile.


Why do you like Trump? This doesn’t seem exactly like a ringing endorsement in regards to his foreign policy and you’ve said in another thread that you aren’t a huge fan of his tax cuts, which is pretty much the only big accomplishment in terms of domestic policy. So what exactly are you head over heels over this guy over? Or is it just a hatred for Hillary that makes all her opponents look like the Messiah in comparison?
chaski On about 8 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#54New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 21:18:03
@bob_the_fisherman Said


if I was him



(Some edits made... )

If I was Trump, I wouldn't run again.

I'd publicly state that there should be a one 6 year term limit for presidents, and get one of my buddies (Lindsey Graham) to push legislation on it. It wouldn't pass, but that wouldn't be the point.

Then I would (continue) to proclaim myself the greatest president in U.S. history and all the other BS claims.

The economy is likely to dip, possibly even falter heavily, in the near future. It that doesn't happen, no big deal. If it does I would claim it was my predecessor's the person who follows me's fault. If my predecessor the person who follows me happened to be a Democrat, I would really play that up and possibly run for a 2nd term in 2024... or have staged a push for Ivanka to run in 2024, claim (once again) that I had saved America... Dems had tried to destroy it... thus I needed to come back and save America again... or have Ivanka save America.

If I was concerned about being indicted after I left office (Note: impeachment really isn't likely and is meaningless because the Republican Senate would/will over rule it), I might step down early enough for Pence to pardon me... or pardon myself if that looks legally possible.

But I am not Trump... he is not me... he will run again, mostly because he can't resist the desire to be a two term president and therefore be able to continue his claim to greatness.

Its a narcissistic thing.
bob_the_fisherman On about 11 hours ago
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#55New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 21:28:08
@Leon Said

To add to this, serious protests against the election of Trump primarily focused on the electoral college system itself and the need to change it to better reflect the will of the population, given that Hillary won the popular vote by a wide margin, and also focused on the illegal Russian influence and the need to tighten security in that regard. Neither was a way to get a re-do of the election and I think most realized that. It was more a protest for action in future elections.

This is also probably why Trump felt the need to claim voter fraud on his end, as he saw these protests as a threat to his legitimacy of winning the election from an American mindset acceptance standpoint. And it of course explains why he has said little/done little about the need to combat foreign influence in our elections.


To me the Electoral College is fair. What people are asking for is the US to be dominated by big cities to the detriment of everywhere else.

In Australia we have an upper house where votes are not weighted equally. The reason is because half the country live in two cities - Sydney and Melbourne. If our politics was decided on a strict one man, one vote system, Australians would now be dying in the streets due to massive food shortages (and this is not really hyperbole).

When the city parties (Labor and Greens) are in power, they think they know how to run rural areas - they stop people from clearing land of fuel, meaning bushfires are devastating. They want water to flow in rivers instead of water crops, and they absolutely will not allow infrastructure work to build dams or pipe water around. This kills more of our already dying rural areas, and means the Chinese get more of our farms.

When Aus federated, in order to create a unified nation, we had to give all states equal representation, which means all perspectives would get equal treatment. Having city people dictate everything would be insane. The system is broken now because blind party loyalty almost always trumps state affiliation, but in principle it is a great idea.

@Leon Said

Why do you like Trump? This doesn’t seem exactly like a ringing endorsement in regards to his foreign policy and you’ve said in another thread that you aren’t a huge fan of his tax cuts, which is pretty much the only big accomplishment in terms of domestic policy. So what exactly are you head over heels over this guy over? Or is it just a hatred for Hillary that makes all her opponents look like the Messiah in comparison?


I used to regularly say here (just after Trump won) that I don't believe in the absurd idea that I need to be in a cheer squad or lynch mob for politicians. The partisan insanity is crazy to me. I do not expect Trump to be perfect, I expect him to be human.

Some of my comments about Trump are throwing burly in the water (God Emperor and glorious etc). I do it for fun.

I like Trump because despite all of his flaws and problems he is the only leader in the west who seems to even try to act in the interests of the people. You may not agree with all he does (and neither do I), but again, we shouldn't expect to agree with anyone on everything.

His attitude to Iran, Russia, China and NK has been good. Not great, but good (although the media won't tell you that).

His attitude to Brexit is good.

His attitude to the Visegrad group is great.

His attitude to Islam is better than anyone else by miles (although his relationship with the Sauds concerns me. However, yes, he was much better than the Bush and Clinton crime syndicates in that and every other respect that I could see).

Too many politicians (especially on the so called left) preach hate and call it love and/or are corporate and globalist shills. Too many on the right are for corporate shills that are happy for the other side to divide and destroy. I think Trump actually does care about the west. And there is no one else leading a western nation that does.
Leon On August 16, 2019




San Diego, California
#56New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 21:48:49
@bob_the_fisherman Said

To me the Electoral College is fair. What people are asking for is the US to be dominated by big cities to the detriment of everywhere else.

In Australia we have an upper house where votes are not weighted equally. The reason is because half the country live in two cities - Sydney and Melbourne. If our politics was decided on a strict one man, one vote system, Australians would now be dying in the streets due to massive food shortages (and this is not really hyperbole).

When the city parties (Labor and Greens) are in power, they think they know how to run rural areas - they stop people from clearing land of fuel, meaning bushfires are devastating. They want water to flow in rivers instead of water crops, and they absolutely will not allow infrastructure work to build dams or pipe water around. This kills more of our already dying rural areas, and means the Chinese get more of our farms.

When Aus federated, in order to create a unified nation, we had to give all states equal representation, which means all perspectives would get equal treatment. Having city people dictate everything would be insane. The system is broken now because blind party loyalty almost always trumps state affiliation, but in principle it is a great idea.



I used to regularly say here (just after Trump won) that I don't believe in the absurd idea that I need to be in a cheer squad or lynch mob for politicians. The partisan insanity is crazy to me. I do not expect Trump to be perfect, I expect him to be human.

Some of my comments about Trump are throwing burly in the water (God Emperor and glorious etc). I do it for fun.

I like Trump because despite all of his flaws and problems he is the only leader in the west who seems to even try to act in the interests of the people. You may not agree with all he does (and neither do I), but again, we shouldn't expect to agree with anyone on everything.

His attitude to Iran, Russia, China and NK has been good. Not great, but good (although the media won't tell you that).

His attitude to Brexit is good.

His attitude to the Visegrad group is great.

His attitude to Islam is better than anyone else by miles (although his relationship with the Sauds concerns me. However, yes, he was much better than the Bush and Clinton crime syndicates in that and every other respect that I could see).

Too many politicians (especially on the so called left) preach hate and call it love and/or are corporate and globalist shills. Too many on the right are for corporate shills that are happy for the other side to divide and destroy. I think Trump actually does care about the west. And there is no one else leading a western nation that does.


Well, we are getting the opposite effect, which is that the majority of the population is being overruled by the minority, which isn’t a good thing, either.

And, see, I don’t view Trump as that either. To me, he seems like an individual with a severe narcissistic disorder that has very little regard for the common man (which he has very little connection/understanding with to begin with), a habitual liar, ineffective money-manager who who is good at fraud, doesn’t seem to understand how Washington works at all, making him even more ineffective, and sets a very bad moral example for our future generations.

My heart tells me he doesn’t have one really.
DiscordTiger On about 2 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#57New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 21:50:58
wait... if trump decides to not run, does he still get all the tax and financial benefits he got because he filed the paper work the day after the inauguration?

I know someone can always drop out, but I don't know the apecifics on the tax/campaign law.
and i'm too lazy to go research it right now.
bob_the_fisherman On about 11 hours ago
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#58New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 21:53:51
@Leon Said

Well, we are getting the opposite effect, which is that the majority of the population is being overruled by the minority, which isn’t a good thing, either.

And, see, I don’t view Trump as that either. To me, he seems like an individual with a severe narcissistic disorder that has very little regard for the common man (which he has very little connection/understanding with to begin with), a habitual liar, ineffective money-manager who who is good at fraud, doesn’t seem to understand how Washington works at all, making him even more ineffective, and sets a very bad moral example for our future generations.

My heart tells me he doesn’t have one really.



Fair enough. I guess that answers the question I just asked in the other thread.

I see him differently. I see and hear what the media say, but then I listen to Trump. I have listened to him speak multiple times - at the UN (brilliant speech and the media played the laughter and ignored all the great things he said). His speech in Poland was one of the best since Churchill (if you ignore his waffle).

The media lie. Have a look at the treatment of Barry Goldwater. It was so bad the APA had to invent a rule to stop it from being done again (a rule that psychologists broke to lie about Trump). This isn't new.

The media loved Trump til he ran as a Republican.
Leon On August 16, 2019




San Diego, California
#59New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 21:58:01
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Fair enough. I guess that answers the question I just asked in the other thread.

I see him differently. I see and hear what the media say, but then I listen to Trump. I have listened to him speak multiple times - at the UN (brilliant speech and the media played the laughter and ignored all the great things he said). His speech in Poland was one of the best since Churchill (if you ignore his waffle).

The media lie. Have a look at the treatment of Barry Goldwater. It was so bad the APA had to invent a rule to stop it from being done again (a rule that psychologists broke to lie about Trump). This isn't new.

The media loved Trump til he ran as a Republican.


Hmm, the media loved Trump only because he made them money. He’s always been despicable as a person. I even knew this as a kid (I was a boxing fan then), and never really liked him.
bob_the_fisherman On about 11 hours ago
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#60New Post! Mar 07, 2019 @ 22:12:16
@Leon Said

Hmm, the media loved Trump only because he made them money. He’s always been despicable as a person. I even knew this as a kid (I was a boxing fan then), and never really liked him.


Not being American I didn't grow up with Trump being a thing. I've seen bits and pieces of him here and there and see his more boastful side as what we in Aus call "American." From our perspective Americans are just brash, even arrogant by nature... (to you guys I can only assume many of us are rude,opinionated and offensive - which we are but it's a cultural thing. We call our mates c*nt and if you're a c*nt we call you mate, just before we punch you )

Anyway... that doesn't put me off him. I also enjoy the fact that he is a s***lord, his mocking of others is awesome.

But I see him as genuine, despite all of his flaws. If it turns out in the end that I was wrong and he was in it for ego, I'd be surprised, but I'll admit it.

What does "cleaning the swamp" mean to you? I agree it should be done. I just wonder what it means to each of us and whether it means the same thing.
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