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Never churched versus previously churched

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gakINGKONG On about 3 hours ago




Misawa, Japan
#1New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 00:02:22
Suppose one day it became manifestly clear to you that the best way to go forward would be to relieve yourself without taking any other steps. If you had to go you just go in your pants or whatever. No toilet. No squatting. No ducking behind a tree. Just let fly and keep moving.

Now, you still have the memory of using the toilet. And, you could revert to it in a pinch. 😶

Now suppose you met another person who acted the same way you do. This person would relieve himself without the benefit of a toilet but the difference is that this person never once had an opportunity to use the toilet. You out of principle abandoning the practice, this person out of incident never finding the opportunity.

Both are messy. Both are un-necessary.

The point here is, there is no reason to not use the toilet. Unless of course one is simply not available. Only the very young or mentally deficient decide against such things. Or the uninitiated.

It’s like that with church. There are a few people who will tell you that they were churchman but now aren’t. Then there are others who will tell you that they’ve never attended. Their perspectives on religion won’t be the same
chaski On about 10 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#2New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 00:31:55
I agree, religion is much like a toilet... a waste receptacle... but less useful.
mrmhead 8 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#4New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 01:32:56
@gakINGKONG Said
Or the uninitiated.



So would you think less of, or punish the person that has never seen a toilet?
darkman666 On about 8 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#5New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 02:03:06
I can't see a congregation have a service in an outhouse. but I have been to temple since memorial service of my mother's death. I like you do have a choice to go service to church or temple. when you are a kid, you force to go.
gakINGKONG On about 3 hours ago




Misawa, Japan
#6New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 02:24:44
@mrmhead Said

So would you think less of, or punish the person that has never seen a toilet?



It's a weird example but I chose it because as far as I can tell most of us have accepted the premise of organized toileting.

No, if I met a person who never used a modern bathroom, I wouldn't look down on them.

In my adult life, I've heard my peers and team-mates say things like "I'm spiritual but not religious" or "I don't believe in organized religion."

These expressions are more and more common.

But few of us would say that all spirituality is toxic. Few of us would say that any spirituality is destructive.

But if spirituality does have value, shouldn't it be organized (somehow? at least a little?) ?

I can even understand if a person doesn't enjoy reading devotionals all the time, or praying a lot, or swearing an oath or creed or attending regular meetings. (if I'm camping or hiking I can go behind a tree)

I think to the person who gave up organized religion still has a better vantage than the person who never had it.
mrmhead 8 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#7New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 02:28:54
@gakINGKONG Said

I think to the person who gave up organized religion still has a better vantage than the person who never had it.



Better advantage with what?
chaski On about 10 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#8New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 02:54:00
@mrmhead Said

Better advantage with what?



Not sure what the GAK thinks, but from a christian perspective: if you have been truly saved by your faith in Jesus Christ, it doesn't go away.

A person who gave up organized religion, presuming he/she was truly saved would have a better vantage in terms of belief and faith in Jesus Christ as one's savior (aka the dogma of christianity) than the person who never had it... i.e. is damned to hell because he/she has never heard nor embraced the grace of god.

etc... etc...etc...

While his presentation is wacky, GAK is a simple man... easily understood... faith in the dogma of christianity and the dogma of the conservative political perspective. There doesn't seem to be much else there.

Note: That was not meant as an insult nor an attack.

Thank you all for your time.

gakINGKONG On about 3 hours ago




Misawa, Japan
#9New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 03:00:35
@mrmhead Said

Better advantage with what?



Aside from the well-spring of trivia, a lapsed church member may draw upon those memories to someday return to the fold.

J.F.J was a church member but struggled with depression and illness and felt inadequate to be an active member. Circumstances recently have caused her to seek spiritual guidance and she has started praying and reading the bible.

"It's easier to understand what's going on because I remember from long ago this story."
Erimitus On about 12 hours ago




The mind of God, Antarctica
#10New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 16:08:49
A person who has been a member of a religious organization and left is better off.
mrmhead 8 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#11New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 17:38:52
OK
A person who played football in high-school would have an advantage over someone who has never played football, when playing the neighborhood Turkey Bowl on Thanksgiving afternoon.

... so what ...

I didn't play in high-school and I don't play in the Turkey Bowl. I have no need for it.

In fact, I'm better off because I never experienced the body and head trauma that many do and then it comes back to haunt them in their later years.
chaski On about 10 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#12New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 18:27:13
@mrmhead Said

OK
A person who played football in high-school would have an advantage over someone who has never played football, when playing the neighborhood Turkey Bowl on Thanksgiving afternoon.

... so what ...

I didn't play in high-school and I don't play in the Turkey Bowl. I have no need for it.

In fact, I'm better off because I never experienced the body and head trauma that many do and then it comes back to haunt them in their later years.


Also (and I am guessing here) you don't get flushed or flush others down the toilet on a regular basis.

Eaglebauer 1 minutes ago
FOSSOR SAPIENS

Moderator




Saint Louis, Missouri
#13New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 19:08:02
@chaski Said

Not sure what the GAK thinks, but from a christian perspective: if you have been truly saved by your faith in Jesus Christ, it doesn't go away.

A person who gave up organized religion, presuming he/she was truly saved would have a better vantage in terms of belief and faith in Jesus Christ as one's savior (aka the dogma of christianity) than the person who never had it... i.e. is damned to hell because he/she has never heard nor embraced the grace of god.

etc... etc...etc...

While his presentation is wacky, GAK is a simple man... easily understood... faith in the dogma of christianity and the dogma of the conservative political perspective. There doesn't seem to be much else there.

Note: That was not meant as an insult nor an attack.

Thank you all for your time.




Whether or not it was meant as an insult, I disagree.

I've had some personal exchanges with GAK through private messaging. And regardless of whether one agrees with his ideals or not, whether or not one likes him, he's far from simple. There's plenty more than meets the eye.

(And that being said, I don't know that there's anyone active here anymore that I dislike, really...I could sit and have a beer with GAK or anyone else here and enjoy myself)

Just for the sake of putting that out there.
Eaglebauer 1 minutes ago
FOSSOR SAPIENS

Moderator




Saint Louis, Missouri
#14New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 19:16:37
As for the OP, I guess I'm weary of accepting that one is better off for certain experiences than others may be. The experience of religion is extremely subjective, I think, and while some believe that it's given them a certain foothold, others my have more visceral ideas about it and decide that they are worse off for having been a part of it. I used to be a churchgoer a long time ago. I remember as a teenager being the only one in the family who would get up and go on Sunday and remember once being moved by the sermons and the feeling of congregation. I don't go anymore and haven't for many many years and I think it's because I no longer have a need for it.

To say that there is no reason to not "use the toilet" does simplify things a bit. If one were to suggest there is no reason to not go to church to someone who is not a believer I don't know that it would bear any fruit because a lot of people can counter with a lot of reasons they perceive for not going. That we have "widely agreed upon organized toiletry" is quite a different statement than "we have widely agreed upon organized religion" because quite obviously in recent history, that's simply not the case. The western world absolutely does not agree on organized religion, and neither does the rest of the world. At least not anymore.
chaski On about 10 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#15New Post! Jan 11, 2019 @ 19:34:43
@Eaglebauer Said


he's far from simple. There's plenty more than meets the eye.




I will happily trust you on that point.
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