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Kilts

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Jennifer1984 On about 19 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#1New Post! Nov 30, 2018 @ 16:35:13
I had coffee with a friend this morning and she showed me her sister's wedding photos. The groom wore a kilt even though, my friend told me, he isn't Scottish. His father and brother (best man) also wore kilts.

I asked her why he did this and she said they all thought it would look good in the photos.

I told her I thought that was.... fake... fraudulent. She agreed with me although she'd said nothing to her sister.

The wearing of kilts at such formal occasions seems to be becoming more commonplace. I can understand - sort of - English families who might have a distant Scottish connection wearing them but only if they're made in a tartan that is appropriate to the clan connection being claimed.

But to me, doing it as a fashion statement is not only faux, it's disrespectful.

I'm aware that there are many of Scottish descent now in their fourth or fifth (or more) generation living in the US. Is the wearing of tartan or kilts as commonplace over there as it appears to be becoming here..?

What do TFS'ers feel about that..? Should a kilt, in any tartan, be exclusive to the relevant clan or is the kilt fair game for anybody who considers them fashionable..?
Leon On about 12 hours ago




San Diego, California
#2New Post! Nov 30, 2018 @ 16:49:52
As far as I can tell, the fashion trend hasn’t reached here. If I saw someone wearing a kilt at a formal event, it would probably be assumed it truly has something to do with that person’s heritage, due to its rare occurrence.

At any rate, if it were more common, it would probably be seen as a fad. And, like all fads, would pass in a year or so. Then it would be back to just those who want to express their heritage doing so.

Upon it happening, I can see why those who truly have close connections with their heritage being somewhat offended by a “cheapening” trend. If it were me, I might be as well.

That being said though, I probably wouldn’t say anything and take solace in the fact it will pass anyways and move on. Everybody gets offended way too much over everything anyways these days, and in a time where there are much bigger fish to fry.
chaski On about 4 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#3New Post! Nov 30, 2018 @ 17:26:41
There are hiking kilts...typically no tartans, just kaki or black or some other neutral color.

I know a few people who wear them.

Is that insulting, disrespectful and/or fake also?
twilitezone911 On December 03, 2018




Saint Louis, Missouri
#4New Post! Nov 30, 2018 @ 20:05:01
I personally never see a man wear kilt before. but I have a friend from Scotland for years, my days at my boy camp. it really a nice guy.

the last year, my youngest niece, Emily and I were at a restaurant. we were talking about if men wear anything under the kilts are or not. this was a silly conversation, even my sister (Emily's mother) got involved with. i got really silly, and I whispered in Emily's ear, " they don't wear underwear! " Emily looks at me, and started to laughed really hard and so did I.
cole 14 minutes ago




Stirling, United Kingdom
#5New Post! Nov 30, 2018 @ 20:19:20
@Jennifer1984 Said

I had coffee with a friend this morning and she showed me her sister's wedding photos. The groom wore a kilt even though, my friend told me, he isn't Scottish. His father and brother (best man) also wore kilts.

I asked her why he did this and she said they all thought it would look good in the photos.

I told her I thought that was.... fake... fraudulent. She agreed with me although she'd said nothing to her sister.

The wearing of kilts at such formal occasions seems to be becoming more commonplace. I can understand - sort of - English families who might have a distant Scottish connection wearing them but only if they're made in a tartan that is appropriate to the clan connection being claimed.

But to me, doing it as a fashion statement is not only faux, it's disrespectful.

I'm aware that there are many of Scottish descent now in their fourth or fifth (or more) generation living in the US. Is the wearing of tartan or kilts as commonplace over there as it appears to be becoming here..?

What do TFS'ers feel about that..? Should a kilt, in any tartan, be exclusive to the relevant clan or is the kilt fair game for anybody who considers them fashionable..?



Being from Scotland Kilts are really just ceremonial attire normally for weddings. It's very rare to actually see anyone wearing kilt as actual clothes. If so they are usually elderly and what one might class as upper class.

I remember about 10 years one of the designers did a whole range of fashion kilts in black which were popular. I think it was the designer who killed himself but can't quite remember his name (Alexander McQueen?)

As a Scot I would take at umbrage at someone wearing a clan tartan when they had no affiliation to that particular clan, just because it's cool or would look nice in a photo. But i suppose in many places people have appropriated other culture's fashions. We see this often with perhaps people wearing items that come from African cultures when they have no familial connection to Africa.

I do believe kilts/tartan are popular in Canada? However lots of Canadians can trace their roots back to Scotland
chaski On about 4 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#6New Post! Nov 30, 2018 @ 21:01:45
@cole Said


As a Scot I would take at umbrage at someone wearing a clan tartan when they had no affiliation to that particular clan, just because it's cool or would look nice in a photo.




Totally get it, but still have a question:

One branch of my family goes back to Scotland; Nimmo. We're talking a line that came to what is now the USA in the mid-1700's down to my grandmother. We don't have any connection with the family back in Scotland, other than being descendants. Most of my family is Welsh or English.

Now, I don't know if they have a tartan, but let's pretend like they do.

From your perspective: Would it be inappropriate for me to get a Nimmo family tartan kilt and wear it?

Note: I do not plan on doing this. This is not a baiting question. I'm just interested in what would be viewed as acceptable or not by someone from Scotland.

Also, if I really really wanted to do this (I don't, again just asking)... is it just not right? Or should I reach out to my Scottish relatives and get permission?
cole 14 minutes ago




Stirling, United Kingdom
#7New Post! Nov 30, 2018 @ 21:12:56
@chaski Said

Totally get it, but still have a question:

One branch of my family goes back to Scotland; Nimmo. We're talking a line that came to what is now the USA in the mid-1700's down to my grandmother. We don't have any connection with the family back in Scotland, other than being descendants. Most of my family is Welsh or English.

Now, I don't know if they have a tartan, but let's pretend like they do.

From your perspective: Would it be inappropriate for me to get a Nimmo family tartan kilt and wear it?

Note: I do not plan on doing this. This is not a baiting question. I'm just interested in what would be viewed as acceptable or not by someone from Scotland.

Also, if I really really wanted to do this (I don't, again just asking)... is it just not right? Or should I reach out to my Scottish relatives and get permission?


No, if you have family connections to Scotland I would not have an issue with you wearing that tartan but then I have no affiliations to any clans. I believe my surname is English however my father's family is Baird which has a Tartan but it is god awful looking. I have a wedding next year and I have to wear the McKenzie Tartan which is the family of the groom. I have no issues with this.
chaski On about 4 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#8New Post! Nov 30, 2018 @ 21:21:50
@cole Said

No, if you have family connections to Scotland I would not have an issue with you wearing that tartan but then I have no affiliations to any clans. I believe my surname is English however my father's family is Baird which has a Tartan but it is god awful looking. I have a wedding next year and I have to wear the McKenzie Tartan which is the family of the groom. I have no issues with this.



Ok.

Just wondering.

If I was going to wear a kilt with family tartan, I'd probably still try to reach out to the family in Scotland for "permission". Sort of become a card carrying Nimmo.

No doubt they would think me a nut... and they would be right.
gakINGKONG On about 8 hours ago




Lutz, Florida
#9New Post! Nov 30, 2018 @ 23:55:09
Cultural appropriation can be awkward.

But if I didn't borrow from someone else's culture I'd have no culture at all.

Today I ate a taco. Tomorrow I'll eat a sandwich.
twilitezone911 On December 03, 2018




Saint Louis, Missouri
#10New Post! Dec 01, 2018 @ 00:15:23
One branch of my family goes back to Scotland; Nimmo. We're talking a line that came to what is now the USA in the mid-1700's down to my grandmother. We don't have any connection with the family back in Scotland, other than being descendants. Most of my family is Welsh or English.

we finally the answer of burning question, why the lock ness monster never seen in a blue dress, because chase wear one in the usa!
offbeat On December 13, 2018




london, United Kingdom
#11New Post! Dec 03, 2018 @ 11:57:03
@Jennifer1984 Said

I had coffee with a friend this morning and she showed me her sister's wedding photos. The groom wore a kilt even though, my friend told me, he isn't Scottish. His father and brother (best man) also wore kilts.

I asked her why he did this and she said they all thought it would look good in the photos.

I told her I thought that was.... fake... fraudulent. She agreed with me although she'd said nothing to her sister.

The wearing of kilts at such formal occasions seems to be becoming more commonplace. I can understand - sort of - English families who might have a distant Scottish connection wearing them but only if they're made in a tartan that is appropriate to the clan connection being claimed.

But to me, doing it as a fashion statement is not only faux, it's disrespectful.

I'm aware that there are many of Scottish descent now in their fourth or fifth (or more) generation living in the US. Is the wearing of tartan or kilts as commonplace over there as it appears to be becoming here..?

What do TFS'ers feel about that..? Should a kilt, in any tartan, be exclusive to the relevant clan or is the kilt fair game for anybody who considers them fashionable..?



it is not disrespectful. people have been borrowing items of clothing from other cultures and periods for hundreds of years. there are millions of people all across the world that wear western style clothing and it isn't disrespectful. if anything, wearing clothes or styling the hair in the fashion of another culture is a compliment.
offbeat On December 13, 2018




london, United Kingdom
#12New Post! Dec 03, 2018 @ 12:02:00
@gakINGKONG Said

Cultural appropriation can be awkward.

But if I didn't borrow from someone else's culture I'd have no culture at all.

Today I ate a taco. Tomorrow I'll eat a sandwich.



'awkward?' ...I think the word you're looking for is 'bulls**t!'
Jennifer1984 On about 19 hours ago
Remoaner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#13New Post! Dec 03, 2018 @ 13:12:45
There are some very interesting points raised here and I'm glad Cole responded as it is good to get the viewpoint of a Scot.

Yes, I think it is disrespectful to wear an item of clothing that has a significant cultural affiliation with a certain group of people for no better reason than "It'll look cool in the photos."

There are legitimate occasions when an English (or other) national would wear a a kilt. F'rinstance, an English soldier serving in a Scottish army regiment where the kilt is a part of ceremonial uniform.

Some years ago, the England rugby captain of that time, Will Carling got some modelling work for a men's outfitters chain here, and one of the items he wore for the shoot was a kilt. It caused an uproar in Scotland. The controversy became so heated that he was interviewed on BBC Radio Scotland about it. He tried to explain nicely at first but the interviewer got more and more antagonistic towards him, in the end, he said to Carling "Does it bother you that the whole of Scotland hates the English?"

Carling - clearly annoyed by this - replied "No, because we f***ing hate you too." He had a tendency to be a bit spikey, did Will. No stranger to controversy, he included among his many social gaffes, being one of Princess Diana's many lovers.

But let's get back to the point.

National costume can be a sensitive issue and in my opinion, the default position should be 'Don't do it unless you've got a pretty good reason.' and then, it might be worth taking advice on the etiquette of the matter first.

I think Leon makes a very good point by suggesting this is a fad thing. It probably is and when something "cooler" comes along, the English (who don't have a distinctive national costume) will follow that.

We're quite capable of offending everybody without even trying.

As for the point about eating a sandwich tomorrow, that's a bit of a red herring (pun intended) in the context of the discussion. Food is universal. The sandwich was probably 'invented' long before the 4th Earl of Sandwich slapped a slab of meat between two slices of bread so he could carry on playing cards with his buddies rather than stop for a proper dinner.

Food crosses borders. I don't really believe there is such a thing as a "national dish". We all have to scoff 2000 calories a day and nobody really cares where they come from.

Only where animals are concerned is it species specific. After all, who would want to go on a photo safari to Africa, Shlep all the way out onto the Serengeti, and when you got there all the lions were eating hummus..!!

It wouldn't look right, now would it..?

So.... proportion in all things and a bit of sensitivity can go a long way, methinks.

And yeah... the fad will move on in time. Good points made. Thanks.
gakINGKONG On about 8 hours ago




Lutz, Florida
#14New Post! Dec 03, 2018 @ 14:58:58
@offbeat Said

'awkward?' ...I think the word you're looking for is 'bulls**t!'



I feel as though pc culture doesn’t enjoy the deconstructions as what it dishes so I make nods and subtle gestures sometimes .
chaski On about 4 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#15New Post! Dec 03, 2018 @ 16:57:26
@offbeat Said

'awkward?' ...I think the word you're looking for is 'bulls**t!'


Cultural appropriation is bulls**t!'...


As in not real

or

As in it's a bad thing for people to do

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