Joe Biden

My understanding of the EC was that is was a way to sort of equalize the voting power distribution. It was like having a handicap in bowling.

If we had no EC CA, NY and FL would determine every race outcome.

It would be a nightmare for the conservative crowd.

So basically the only way a conservative can win is to rig the game.

I don't identify as a conservative but it doesnt seem completely fair that two or three states can determine the outcome. Yeah, I get the flip side arguement too.

The distribution of population made sense. The fact that it’s turned in to the only way one one party (didn’t matter which) can keep power is concerning.
The fact the conservatives keep admitting voter manipulation is their only hope is gross.

That doesn't actually match history.

The EC has determined the election only 5 times in our history. Four of those times the Republican party was the beneficiary. The Democratic party has never been the beneficiary.

The margin of victory since 1960 has typically been in the millions, and the vast majority of the time the population vote essentially mirrored the EC vote.

The list of swing states that have decided the various presidential elections have included: Ohio, Connecticut, Indiana, New Jersey, New York, Illinois, Texas, Florida and New Hampshire.

According to some sources "the closest results in 2020 will occur in Arizona, Florida, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska,, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin."

>>> The idea that the EC is some kind of equalizing factor is not supported by the history of our voting. Unless you are a Republican. <<<

In fact, it is a myth largely pushed by the Republican party, since they are the only ones to have benefited from it.

As a side note: While some fear the voter impact of big urban areas, those areas typically have the lowest voter turnout. So, it isn't real the EC that is equalizing the vote. It is the apathetic voter, who is handing the election to one side or the other. Which largely explains why republican politicians are so keen on putting up obstacle to reduce the voting population.

2nd side note: Bernie was (and maybe still is) a prime force is creating a large body of apathetic voters.

3rd side note: Don't get me wrong, Hillary is largely responsible for pissing her own chances to be elected down the toilet. There were a lot of factors, but the biggest one's point to her own failings.

etc.

The EC vote has technically came down to a handful of states for the last several races, to say otherwise just isnt correct.

It's why I made that comment that about 77k or so determined the outcome. It was based on the how the EC vote went last go.

The EC vote has not come down to a handful of states for the last several races. The EC was overwhelmingly in favor of Trump in the last election.

What it came down to was the popular vote in a few specific states for Trump.

Similarly it came down to the popular vote in a few specific states for Bush.

The EC vote and the popular vote were in line with each other in both Bill Clinton elections and in both Obama elections. The margin of popular vote victory for Clinton was 5 million votes in 1992 and 8 million votes in 1996. Regarding the EC, Clinton won overwhelmingly across the country in 1992 & 1996.

The margin of victory for Obama in 2012 was almost 5 million votes, and in 9.5 million votes in 2008. Regarding the EC, Obama won overwhelmingly across the country in 2008. Less so in 2012, but still not dependent on just a "handful of states".

You are referring to the Bush and Trump elections, and pretending like they are the example of all elections, which they are not. And, considering the most "recent" elections would have to include Obama's two your assessment is wrong.

You can demand that you are right, but you opinion is not supported by the facts.

Of course I suppose you could play around with the definition of "handful" to try to make yourself correct, but you will remain incorrect.

With the exception of the two Bush elections and Trump's, the popular vote held true and was in line with the EC.

Only in regards to the Bush and Trump elections is it true that the EC came down to a few states... but we've already addressed that point: the Republicans remain the only political party to benefit from the EC, and only twice in the last "several races".

Just go back to badgering me, your posts are just factually incorrect.

So presenting you with facts is upsetting you.



No they are not.

You demanding that I am wrong is meaningless. You present no facts to support your incorrect statements.

Go look at the facts.

Check the numbers, both in the EC and popular count.

Do you not have a f***ing life? I mean you just leap on on posts.

Get a f***ing life and stop following me around like some lovesick puppy.

Jeez, you're pathetic.

What an azzhat you are.

So you have no facts to back up your statements, and when presented with facts you start crying again and act like I am being mean to you.

I guess you have Chaski Derangement Syndrome.

As much as I don't want to admit it, that was actually pretty funny. I'm a a comedy whore. Chaski dsrangement syndrome aside was pretty funny.

I still think you're a d***head, but that was a good zinger. I got to admit.

Being a "d***head", or more accurately a complete and utter Jackass, doesn't negate facts.

Peace be upon you.

It sure seems that way. I think the actions of the Neo Cons and the republican party in general have polarized people. Anyone who thinks those guys are cool is either stupid or a quasi fascist. If the Electoral College were to be abolished it might take a while for Conservatives to win seats but it wouldn't be because of the EC- it would be because of the deserved backlash of the voters.

"Finally, it’s long past time to abolish the Electoral College...Millions of Americans are effectively locked out of the (voting) process because they don’t live in so-called battleground states" - Matt Ford from The New Republic

Yeah, polarizing started back when the right brought in the Christian Coalition, and started trying to make voters one issue voters, because the social issues of the time fell in their favor, and it’s just gotten more and more apparent.

I mean strategy wise, it’s not bad. I’m not certain just getting rid of the EC will fix it. Now I’m not, Republican in the party sense, but in the economic and rural parts of the population they do represent there are topics they need a balancing voice. Agriculture, economy, some things like gun rights, (you need a gun on a ranch, it’s not always the same in a city) As awful as I think mass shootings are, I recognize a gun is a tool and needed in some parts of the country and those are more rural. For more than just people that own a ranch, but it’s the first exception that always comes to mind.

Rural life and city life is just different. Some how that needs to be accounted for.

Religion should get the f*** out politics.
I don’t see that happening soon, and I think that is a huge problem. Any issues that bubble up with massive social unrest are all strongly tied to religious beliefs. Gay rights, abortion .. even how we deal with a pandemic is being politically manipulated on religious lines...

“Abortion clinics, liquor, and pot stores are essential when churches are shutdown”

Not 100% factual, and very inflammatory to get the religious riled up they are being oppressed.
Clinics that provide medical services other than and including abortion are open, because most medical offices are open, even if they are doing telemedicine. Certain procedures are rescheduled if they can wait without causing medical harm, to save PPE. (Medical harm is not the same as being “comfortable” waiting sucks for some people but if you’re not getting actively worse, you can wait)

Alcohol is allowed because sudden alcohol withdrawal would cause people to flood ERs which defeats the purpose of staying away from hospitals and saving PPE.

Marijuana ends up staying legal in states that allowed it, because the push for legalization was primarily medical. It’s also a problem to take a drug away from those using it to treat legit conditions. Since there is not a way in some states to separate recreational and medicinal use, it all has to be open.

Churches have not been “shutdown”. Social gathering is limited. Private religious schools have been closed, but so have public ones. Officials can still have on-line or by appointment services. They can also consult via phone or have private meetings. The fact that this is more “work” and “harder” and doesn’t allow for them to “make money” impacts their business— not their religion. People can still worsyand pray as they want.