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Is there such a thing as the "Scientific Mind"?

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Darkman666 On about 22 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#61New Post! Aug 13, 2020 @ 21:05:34
@dookie Said

I thought it might be just MY computer. But hey, if that did happen, there just might be a moral lesson to be learnt.



yes, if this keep going across the atlantic ocean, the forum members can came meet each others first time. when we meet you, we will disappoint.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#62New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 03:02:15
@4d4m Said

I really like this post!

What I meant about beliefs being logical or dogmatic is this. I was talking religion with a friend and I pointed out the Orthodox Church does not believe in the virgin birth. His answer was, "wow, that's crazy." I replied, "what's more crazy?"

The idea that a man was born to a virgin is crazy. There's no reason to believe it (it has it's roots in non canonical texts and is worth analyzing). I personally think it's good that it's in the story.

However, has it occurred to anyone that getting someone to believe something illogical can be a litmus test? If someone is sufficiently programmed can be tested by their belief in something illogical. Like not believing in dinosaurs or evolution, both demonstrable theories. Once someone begins to question those beliefs it can be assumed they're starting to lose that programming.


I quite agree the general tenor of your post, but I think you give a poor example to demonstrate it (virgin birth).

In the context of the time (ie, the last century BCE) in which the conception of Jesus* is alleged to have occurred, it would have been quite reasonable to believe that a virgin birth was miraculous in as much as it could not have been attributed to natural factors or known human ability. The word "Virgin" would have applied solely to a person who had never had heterosexual intercourse.

Today..? Different can of worms altogether. By the definition above, I've produced a virgin birth.

I - and millions of women like me - have benefited from Assisted Fertilisation Technology to produce healthy offspring. No miracles.... no apparitions.... no annunciations..... No angels appeared before me, and I travelled to my daughter's birthplace in a Volkswagen not on a donkey.

Such technology was not available to a simple, middle eastern peasant girl - or any other kind of girl - at that time. What is commonplace now was beyond the scope of anybody's abilities or imagination at that time.

So it's all about context and the conditions of the time. Such an idea would not have been crazy if one could have proved then that a form of conception could have occurred, bypassing the obvious (ahem) biological 'obstacle' to the fact.

We make progress by asking questions and then seeking the answers to them in practical, provable terms. Virgin birth is possible and happens. Who knows what will be possible tomorrow, that is believed to be impossible today?

Lateral thinking comes in many guises. Can open, worms everywhere.





*If he ever lived at all. I'll believe it when a body is found.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#63New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 03:58:20
@Jennifer1984 Said

I quite agree the general tenor of your post, but I think you give a poor example to demonstrate it (virgin birth).

In the context of the time (ie, the last century BCE) in which the conception of Jesus* is alleged to have occurred, it would have been quite reasonable to believe that a virgin birth was miraculous in as much as it could not have been attributed to natural factors or known human ability. The word "Virgin" would have applied solely to a person who had never had heterosexual intercourse.

Today..? Different can of worms altogether. By the definition above, I've produced a virgin birth.

I - and millions of women like me - have benefited from Assisted Fertilisation Technology to produce healthy offspring. No miracles.... no apparitions.... no annunciations..... No angels appeared before me, and I travelled to my daughter's birthplace in a Volkswagen not on a donkey.

Such technology was not available to a simple, middle eastern peasant girl - or any other kind of girl - at that time. What is commonplace now was beyond the scope of anybody's abilities or imagination at that time.

So it's all about context and the conditions of the time. Such an idea would not have been crazy if one could have proved then that a form of conception could have occurred, bypassing the obvious (ahem) biological 'obstacle' to the fact.

We make progress by asking questions and then seeking the answers to them in practical, provable terms. Virgin birth is possible and happens. Who knows what will be possible tomorrow, that is believed to be impossible today?

Lateral thinking comes in many guises. Can open, worms everywhere.





*If he ever lived at all. I'll believe it when a body is found.


The virgin birth comes from non canonical texts. Mary was a temple virgin. Joseph was the man who watched over them and may have been a eunich (speculation), The western church kept the tradition. Constantine joined the eastern church which did not. However, it might be noted the Dionysic Cult also had a hero born to a virgin. There are others as well.
chaski On about 11 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#64New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 04:06:05
@4d4m Said

The virgin birth comes from non canonical texts.


Yes

@4d4m Said

Mary was a temple virgin.


Completely wrong (you might want to read the bible before you write stupid crap.

@4d4m Said

Josep....may have been a eunich


There is literally no basis for that statement. Again... read the bible.


@4d4m Said

The western church kept the tradition. Constantine joined the eastern church....


Historically completely incorrect. Read the bible... then study its formation.... then stop posting stupid incorrect BS about it.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#65New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 04:23:17
Here's a post on the subject by Dr Taylor Marshal

Here's another take from Catholic.com

This is a bit about the Infancy Gospel from Got Questions

This, just for fun, is a bit about the Lost Gospels

You are right, it is speculation if Joseph was a eunich, which is why I mentioned it in my post

I like this one so much I think I'll take a screen shot
chaski On about 11 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#66New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 04:33:24
@4d4m Said


You are right, it is speculation if Joseph was a eunich


No it isn't.

It is complete unsupported BS.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#67New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 07:08:57
@darkman666 Said

yes, if this keep going across the atlantic ocean, the forum members can came meet each others first time. when we meet you, we will disappoint.



My man-boobs could well disappoint the ladies.

dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#68New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 08:18:15
Post duplicated (not sure how) now deleted.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#69New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 08:31:57
Are the Forum Site's servers finally going down?

A post I made in reply to Darkman666 regarding the disappointment of ladies when seeing my man-boobs seems to have disappeared into cyberspace. Whole sets of posts keep moving across to the right, becoming virtually unreadable (possibly a bonus!) while another of mine was simply duplicated.


What will happen to this one?
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#70New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 09:17:55
What IS going on? The post I deleted as it had been duplicated then disappeared, then another which had disappeared suddenly turned up again!

Anyway, here is the post that was duplicated, then both disappeared, again......



Well, the thread has descended from the Scientific Mind to the Virgin Birth and man-boobs. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em......

My own understanding of the Virgin Birth is that the author of St Matthew had picked it up from an Old Testament prophecy of a "young women" giving birth. The Gospel of St Matthew is very hot on the fulfilment of OT prophecies, this to substantiate that Jesus was indeed the coming of the Jewish Messiah. However, the writer of the Gospel used a then current translation of the OT that had translated the Jewish word for "young women" as "a virgin", and he needed to "fulfil" the prophecy. Well, that is one story and explanation, and there has been much scholarly debate/argument/apologetics about the original Hebrew word used.

Then of course, St Matthew traces the family tree of Jesus back from Joseph! Demanding further apologetics. And so forth.

As I see it, the demand and the attempt to place the agent of "salvation" into time/space history, and its evident failure, precludes many from even considering the deep mythic meanings of the whole story. Pure Land Buddhism deals virtually explicitly with mythos, cutting to the quick as it were.

For me, a transcendent god, totally above his creation, incarnating upon earth, to be sacrificed for our sins - such god needing the shedding of blood - is beyond all belief for the average modern person. The themes and questions it addresses, of the "human condition" are however, still relevant, even vital.
Darkman666 On about 22 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#71New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 16:33:11
@dookie Said

My man-boobs could well disappoint the ladies.



mrs. dookie email about your man boobs. she told me, love is blind. also, she said ,she has bad taste, too.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#72New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 20:54:33
I had to get away from another thread, for my own sanity.

A quote appropriate to this thread...

Niels Bohr proposed once that the goal of science is not universal truth. Rather, he argued, the modest but relentless goal of science is “the gradual removal of prejudices.” The discovery that the earth revolves around the sun has gradually removed the prejudice that the earth is the centre of the universe. The discovery of microbes is gradually removing the prejudice that disease is a punishment from God. The discovery of evolution is gradually removing the prejudice that Homo sapiens is a separate and special creation.
Darkman666 On about 22 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#73New Post! Aug 14, 2020 @ 21:06:41
@dookie Said

Are the Forum Site's servers finally going down?

A post I made in reply to Darkman666 regarding the disappointment of ladies when seeing my man-boobs seems to have disappeared into cyberspace. Whole sets of posts keep moving across to the right, becoming virtually unreadable (possibly a bonus!) while another of mine was simply duplicated.


What will happen to this one?


maybe, you are drunk!
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#74New Post! Aug 16, 2020 @ 18:37:26
@dookie Said

I had to get away from another thread, for my own sanity.

A quote appropriate to this thread...

Niels Bohr proposed once that the goal of science is not universal truth. Rather, he argued, the modest but relentless goal of science is “the gradual removal of prejudices.” The discovery that the earth revolves around the sun has gradually removed the prejudice that the earth is the centre of the universe. The discovery of microbes is gradually removing the prejudice that disease is a punishment from God. The discovery of evolution is gradually removing the prejudice that Homo sapiens is a separate and special creation.


It's hard to get people to believe one is a god, or gods, who created the Earth if it turns out it's the third planet in an insignificant solar system on the edge of a galaxy floating in a universe filled with approximately 150 billion galaxies
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#75New Post! Aug 16, 2020 @ 18:58:59
@4d4m Said

It's hard to get people to believe one is a god, or gods, who created the Earth if it turns out it's the third planet in an insignificant solar system on the edge of a galaxy floating in a universe filled with approximately 150 billion galaxies



There are many fine books out there relating to the so called Copernican Revolution. Gradually the idea of a Personal God, totally transcendent to His creation, who incarnates upon earth to shed His blood for our sins, has become totally incredible to many.

Many sensitive people have been reacting to this "revolution", seeking meaning to their lives and experience in fresh pastures. Personally I have moved "east" but respect a mature Christianity as lived by those like Thomas Merton. Again, I am very interested in the likes of T.S.Eliot and others, literary men and women, who experienced the disintegration of the "old answers" in their bones and expressed it in some great poems and books.

Jung spoke of the need of "modern man" to find "a soul". I suppose we each have to find our own path and "answers".

Some seem more sensitive to the whole question than others. Personally I do see signs of hope in the young, whose questions will be different from my own.
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