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Is belief in the supernatural an intelligent person’s game?

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Erimitus On about 1 hour ago




The mind of God, Antarctica
#61New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 04:15:31
@mrmhead Said

Maybe it fell off the edge of the universe...



I hate when that happens
Erimitus On about 1 hour ago




The mind of God, Antarctica
#62New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 04:26:10
@bob_the_fisherman Said

The problem is that you're not grasping what an infinite universe means (or an infinite bucket, if you prefer).

How much water do you need to add to an infinite bucket before the water volume increases? The answer is, no matter how much water you add the volume never increases.

We can add an infinite number of infinite volumes of water to an infinitely large bucket and there is no more water in the bucket than there was before.

The simple reality is that an infinite universe in infinite time is not a thing. The only way it would be remotely possible (leaving aside the fact that it is logically impossible), is if energy was being created at an infinite rate, which is self evidently not happening.



The way I learned it energy can change form but cannot be created or destroyed.

finite...
Erimitus On about 1 hour ago




The mind of God, Antarctica
#63New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 04:28:33
@bob_the_fisherman Said

The fun part is that they actually wouldn't. There is no space at the end of the universe for them to fall into, so they would hit whatever the absence of all things including space is, at which point there frozen solid bodies would probably explode, precipitating a colossal Big Bang and a whole new universe as their bloated entrails distended the walls of reality and broke off into a separate plane of existence....

So, it seems we have answered the question. This universe is like it is because it's the product of some clown's distended entrails exploding at the edge of the previous universe.

This is not only a plausible scenario, it also helps explain the reality we live in.

Case solved.



what if the universe is like a bubble. If you go far enough you end up where you started. And ...there is an infinity of bubbles.
bob_the_fisherman On September 05, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#64New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 08:09:58
@mrmhead Said

No.

If you add water, you are adding water, and adding volume.
Volume is not relative to the size of the container.
A measurement of volume is absolute.
You put a measured volume of water into an infinite bucket, you still have added that measured volume. It does not suddenly become nothing because you moved it to an infinite bucket.


This idea while seeming right, is actually quite horribly wrong.

Any number divided by infinity equals a zero, then a decimal point, then an infinite number of zeros.

Adding any amount to the number makes no difference.

In this analogy where quantity of water equates to time, you can ad as much as you want and the bucket remains empty. That is the problem with actual infinites.

But it's ok. It took science boffins a very long time to work this out, then a long time for them to come up with a viable, possible alternative to a created universe.

The reality is the universe is not infinite and this can be demonstrated in different ways outside of the purely philosophical. The universe is expanding and expending energy, yet the temperature has not reached absolute zero. For the universe to have been expanding infinitely while maintaining heat requires infinite energy. This is absurd, and is only possible under something like Hoyle's "Steady State" theory (that posited the universe was constantly creating energy). However, that theory was debunked a long time ago, and from memory was the reason why the Big Bang was postulated.
bob_the_fisherman On September 05, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#65New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 08:16:44
@chaski Said

I never put limitations on any supernatural being, especially not infinite ones.

All I did was to use your silly and inapplicable logic about an infinite universe to your infinite supernatural being, who must "live" in an infinite "universe" as a finite universe wouldn't quite fit.

By the way, were does your infinite supernatural being reside?


You say you do not place natural limitations on a supernatural being, then use arguments that apply to limitations on matter to erroneously try and refute the possibility of an eternal, supernatural being.

None of my statements here are intended to "prove" the existence of said being. I am merely answering the original question of whether one can be intelligent and believe in the supernatural when the reality is that this question should be the inverse: Can one be intelligent and believe there is no possibility of a supernatural being?

I would say, "yes, but you are not using your intelligence in drawing this very faulty conclusion." Again, this does not prove a god exists, nor is it meant to.
bob_the_fisherman On September 05, 2020
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#66New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 09:03:27
@Erimitus Said

what if the universe is like a bubble. If you go far enough you end up where you started. And ...there is an infinity of bubbles.



Fractal theory?
Erimitus On about 1 hour ago




The mind of God, Antarctica
#67New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 10:41:24
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Fractal theory?



probably not fractals. More like molecules
Erimitus On about 1 hour ago




The mind of God, Antarctica
#68New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 10:43:37
a believer, I suppose, must have some degree of intelligence.
mrmhead On 30 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#69New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 13:28:13
@bob_the_fisherman Said


Any number divided by infinity equals a zero, then a decimal point, then an infinite number of zeros.



Why are you dividing by infinity?

We are adding water to a bottomless bucket.
Merely adding water.
We are not trying to fill it, or calculate how many buckets to fill it.
Nonetheless, there is water in the bottomless bucket.
chaski On 18 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#70New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 13:51:57
@bob_the_fisherman Said

You say you do not place natural limitations on a supernatural being, then use arguments that apply to limitations on matter to erroneously try and refute the possibility of an eternal, supernatural being.

None of my statements here are intended to "prove" the existence of said being. I am merely answering the original question of whether one can be intelligent and believe in the supernatural when the reality is that this question should be the inverse: Can one be intelligent and believe there is no possibility of a supernatural being?

I would say, "yes, but you are not using your intelligence in drawing this very faulty conclusion." Again, this does not prove a god exists, nor is it meant to.



Yet again your English comprehension skills fail you.

I have been making fun of your failed attempt at logical reasoning, not trying to disprove a supernatural being.

Since I believe in an infinite universe, which your flawed reasoning fails to disprove, an infinite supernatural being is possible.

Your finite universe can contain an infinite being.

Trying patching the bottom of your bucket and then filling it with an infinite amount of your time-water.
chaski On 18 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#71New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 15:15:49
@bob_the_fisherman Said


Any number divided by infinity equals a zero, then a decimal point, then an infinite number of zeros.

Adding any amount to the number makes no difference.



This is kind of a nonsensical statement as "infinity" isn't a number.

If we want be more "accurate" (pretending that "infinity" is a number) we should say that "any number divided by infinity approaches zero"... the "limit" being "0"... etc... However, since you can't actually divide by infinity (infinity not being a number) the "answer" is thus considered to be "0".

This point can be argued infinitely, but not with me.

For this discussion let's just accept your statement: "Any number divided by infinity equals a zero".

So we now have the number "0" or 0.0000000000000.... which is still just "0".

Now you say, "Adding any amount to the number makes no difference". However, we have shifted mathematical functions from "division" to "addition".

Let's try that one out:

0 + X = X

0 + 1 = 1

0 + 20 = 20

0 + 2019 = 2019

0 + 299 792 458 = 299 792 458

So apparently your statement is incorrect. Adding any amount to the number (i.e. "0" ) does in fact make a difference.

I'm guessing that you meant to say something different, but that is a guess on my part.

@mrmhead Said

Why are you dividing by infinity?


I'm guessing obfuscation or confusion....
chaski On 18 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#72New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 15:31:50
@bob_the_fisherman Said

The reality is the universe is not infinite and this can be demonstrated in different ways outside of the purely philosophical.


You could try.

So far your "purely philosophical" proof has failed.

You are one of the blind men assessing what an elephant is.
mrmhead On 30 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#73New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 15:53:55
@Erimitus Said

what if the universe is like a bubble. If you go far enough you end up where you started. And ...there is an infinity of bubbles.



Would that be taking a Mobius Trip?
GreatestIam2 On September 03, 2020




Ottawa, Canada
#74New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 16:41:06
@Erimitus Said

I have never been accused of being intelligent but my philosophy has a supernatural entity (the ONE) from which all else is derived.


The spark of god being everywhere is a Gnostic Christian thing.

It is the correct way to see our evolving perfection.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On September 03, 2020




Ottawa, Canada
#75New Post! Jul 04, 2019 @ 16:49:59
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Of course it is. You can have people from a range of intellectual capacities who support and oppose any broader metaphysical view.

If intelligent people can convince themselves that at no place, at no time, nothing happened, and that's how the universe was created (which, let's be honest, is less of a strawman that an exposition of the Naturalistic paradigm), we must concede that people can believe anything.


Unfortunately, yes.

That does not mean that conceding that the people, ---- who really believe in the supernatural, --- are thinking intelligently.

The ancients played with that fools belief notion and found it uninteresting as all it can produce is speculative nonsense.

If there is a god, we should reject him or her for being rude and hiding from us.

That is a bottom line and to respect a rude god is just uncouth.



Regards
DL


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