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Is Sociology a Subversive science?

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SnackAttack On March 06, 2012




Dublin, Ireland
#1New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:13:57
In the early stages of writing a paper with the above title, trying to avoid the overwhelming desire to just submit with the simple answer;....yes.....

But in fear of failing or looking like a lazy fool, I have embarked on this essay writing adventure, the reason(s) I have chosen to air my dirty laundry on this fine social science forum, is because I crave and love peer scrutiny and am hopeful that it will provide me with some intellectual stimulation, resulting in the greatest essay of all time.

The Subversive nature of Sociology seems obvious to me both theoretically and even more so, it can be seen explicitly within the Historical contexts of many notable Sociological writers; blatant examples almost needless to mention, Gramsci and his prison notebooks, first generation of the Frankfurt school who were forced to flea Germany, Michel Foucault who in facing difficulties in his own identity decided to de construct the hidden structures and origins of systems of knowledge in society.

If the purpose of sociology is to expose the hidden and to understand, and if we presume that no piece of writing is ever value free, then is it even possible to write anything that at least one person does not see as subversive?
Jacquesmetat On August 01, 2012




Out on the 'oggin, United King
#2New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:16:40
Is sociology even a 'kin science at all? Ask an engineer or a biologist or any other real scientist and they will probably laugh at the thought.
Sparklegirl On December 13, 2019
LL.M





Cumbria, United Kingdom
#3New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:24:17
@Jacquesmetat Said

Is sociology even a 'kin science at all? Ask an engineer or a biologist or any other real scientist and they will probably laugh at the thought.



well it is still a social science- similar to psyychology which is classed as a science which is why the graduates gain a BSc rather than a BA. I'm studying a cross with all thse subjects and its the statistial analysis and reserach element which is involved that classifies them as a science strand. of course it is much more field based than lab based such as a chemist but its still a science all the same
glitter_sniffer On August 25, 2015
Om nom nom





Glasgow, United Kingdom
#4New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:29:22
@Jacquesmetat Said

Is sociology even a 'kin science at all? Ask an engineer or a biologist or any other real scientist and they will probably laugh at the thought.



In University does Sociology come as a BA or a BSc? I've always wondered, does it differ depending on the school?

I've always had the impression that Sociology, as well as Psychology, was very subjective. As much as there are studies and experiments I think that how you really look upon the results is dependant on previous teachings or thoughts.
So whether it's subversive is really a matter of personal opinion. I do think that it has the ability to "expose the hidden" in all written things - but I think that there will always be at least one person to analyse anything and make it subversive. Some people find it very easy to find great value in something seemingly superficial.
Jacquesmetat On August 01, 2012




Out on the 'oggin, United King
#5New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:29:38
@Sparklegirl Said

well it is still a social science- similar to psyychology which is classed as a science which is why the graduates gain a BSc rather than a BA. I'm studying a cross with all thse subjects and its the statistial analysis and reserach element which is involved that classifies them as a science strand. of course it is much more field based than lab based such as a chemist but its still a science all the same



Some universities give out degrees for saving up smartie tops. it doesnt make it a science. I think there was a thread on here not long ago where somebody pointed out you can learn Klingon at university and that is probably a BSC. when I think of a science i think of mathematics or physics. a real scientific discipline. but you are probably right, at least technically. But if i was going to build a bridge I wouldnt want to have a sociologist telling me what the tensile strength of the supports had to be to bear the weight of the traffic going over it.
Sparklegirl On December 13, 2019
LL.M





Cumbria, United Kingdom
#6New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:35:47
@Jacquesmetat Said

Some universities give out degrees for saving up smartie tops. it doesnt make it a science. I think there was a thread on here not long ago where somebody pointed out you can learn Klingon at university and that is probably a BSC. when I think of a science i think of mathematics or physics. a real scientific discipline. but you are probably right, at least technically. But if i was going to build a bridge I wouldnt want to have a sociologist telling me what the tensile strength of the supports had to be to bear the weight of the traffic going over it.



damn right, if you ever wish to build a bridge, please dont come asking me for help as i beleive i would be of very little use i could advise on the prettiness of it but less on the actual construction side of it!!! i once made a bridge out of corrugaed card at school once if that helps

i recall in my last year of uni i saw a prospectus advertising a degree in both golf studies and.. wait for it... posh & becks studies. wow well that must be an epic degree to hold- the ins and outs of the beckham family wont help much with real life issues or jobs! then agai i have tended to stick to the more academic side of studing in my previous qualifications
SnackAttack On March 06, 2012




Dublin, Ireland
#7New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:38:22
This seems to be opening a debates on the merits of Sociology as a science.... if Sociology is not a "real" science, what is? how do you conceptualise "real" science?

What would you call following a predetermined methodology, developing concepts, turning concepts into hypothesis, with the end goal of developing and proving a theory? All based on the analysis of both qualitative and quantitative data?

Think this could be a debate for another topic, for the purpose of argument let settle on it being a social science and concentrate on the question of it as a subversive Science, contemporary Sociologist Pierre Bourdieu described sociology as a martial art, only to be used in self defence never for provocation.
SnackAttack On March 06, 2012




Dublin, Ireland
#8New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:39:37
Sociology is BA or Bsc at under grad and MSocSc at postgrad
glitter_sniffer On August 25, 2015
Om nom nom





Glasgow, United Kingdom
#9New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:41:43
@SnackAttack Said


Think this could be a debate for another topic, for the purpose of argument let settle on it being a social science and concentrate on the question of it as a subversive Science, contemporary Sociologist Pierre Bourdieu described sociology as a martial art, only to be used in self defence never for provocation.



I'm afraid I don't know a lot of these Sociologists work, but it's something I would like to read up on in the future, it all seems very interesting.
I do agree that it should only be used in self defence, never for provocation - but then what determines the use of it in these ways? Who picks what is classed as what? Who or what determines whether you are reading too much into thing and potentially twisting their meanings?
Sparklegirl On December 13, 2019
LL.M





Cumbria, United Kingdom
#10New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:42:29
@SnackAttack Said

This seems to be opening a debates on the merits of Sociology as a science.... if Sociology is not a "real" science, what is? how do you conceptualise "real" science?

What would you call following a predetermined methodology, developing concepts, turning concepts into hypothesis, with the end goal of developing and proving a theory? All based on the analysis of both qualitative and quantitative data?

Think this could be a debate for another topic, for the purpose of argument let settle on it being a social science and concentrate on the question of it as a subversive Science, contemporary Sociologist Pierre Bourdieu described sociology as a martial art, only to be used in self defence never for provocation.



how are you on one tailed and two tailed hypothesis? slightly off topic but im in need of guidance with that one
rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#11New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:42:41
@SnackAttack Said

This seems to be opening a debates on the merits of Sociology as a science.... if Sociology is not a "real" science, what is? how do you conceptualise "real" science?

What would you call following a predetermined methodology, developing concepts, turning concepts into hypothesis, with the end goal of developing and proving a theory? All based on the analysis of both qualitative and quantitative data?

Think this could be a debate for another topic, for the purpose of argument let settle on it being a social science and concentrate on the question of it as a subversive Science, contemporary Sociologist Pierre Bourdieu described sociology as a martial art, only to be used in self defence never for provocation.



Radical or "critical" sociologists often see themselves as akin to muck-raking journalists. Whether sociology is a "real science" is related to the connection sociology has with common sense knowledge, often called lay sociology.


rogY
SnackAttack On March 06, 2012




Dublin, Ireland
#12New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 12:53:03
@rogy Said

Radical or "critical" sociologists often see themselves as akin to muck-raking journalists. Whether sociology is a "real science" is related to the connection sociology has with common sense knowledge, often called lay sociology.


rogY



"radical or critical Sociologists" surely this is a matter of subjective contextualisation!!

As for common sense knowledge, is it not the purpose, to unearth the hidden, to try and identify patterns and phenomena in society,

does connecting everything back to "common sense knowledge" not entirely defeat this purpose?

Discourse analysis from Foucault, highlights the problematic with this line of thought, no?
rogy On June 03, 2013




, United Kingdom
#13New Post! Nov 01, 2011 @ 13:05:33
@SnackAttack Said

"radical or critical Sociologists" surely this is a matter of subjective contextualisation!!

As for common sense knowledge, is it not the purpose, to unearth the hidden, to try and identify patterns and phenomena in society,

does connecting everything back to "common sense knowledge" not entirely defeat this purpose?

Discourse analysis from Foucault, highlights the problematic with this line of thought, no?


I do not think it is a question of "connecting things back." It is more about that sociology deals with issues that humans deal with just by living as social beings.

We do not need sociology to function in the world - but sociology brings extra layers of understanding - not least due to its insistence on contextualising, as you suggest.


rogY
christoper On May 17, 2017
Troll



Amsterdam, Canada
#14New Post! May 08, 2017 @ 14:04:24
@Sparklegirl Said

well it is still a social science- similar to psyychology which is classed as a science which is why the graduates gain a BSc rather than a BA. I'm studying a cross with all thse subjects and its the statistial analysis and reserach element which is involved that classifies them as a science strand. of course it is much more field based than lab based such as a chemist but its still a science all the same



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