Intrinsically repugnant or just a sign of the times?

https://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051002/NEWS06/510020490/1012/NEWS06

Yeah, I have officially stopped eating beef and dairy. Am I overreacting or does anyone agree?

i cant get to it but is it about mad cow??

The Baltimore Sun
WASHINGTON -- The federal government is nearing a decision to allow the sale of meat and milk from cloned cows and their offspring, according to officials from government, industry and consumer groups.
The Food and Drug Administration is expected to take a major step toward approval soon, proposing to permit the sales, subject to 60 days of public comment and some additional review.
That could lead to choice cuts of steak and cartons of milk produced from cloned cattle landing in kitchens in the coming years.
Given the high cost of cloning, industry officials and consumer advocates say it's more likely that consumers would be sold the meat -- if not the milk -- of offspring of cloned cattle, not of the clones themselves.
"You're not producing them to eat -- you're producing them to breed," said Scott K. Davis, president of Start Licensing, a joint venture of biotechnology companies that own the licenses for cloning livestock. He said cloning a cow would cost $15,000.
Even after the FDA reaches a final decision, livestock producers will need up to four years or more to raise offspring ready for slaughter, and most dairy farmers might ignore the technology until the cost falls, their trade groups said.
Once approval comes, however, industry and consumer groups are concerned that a public backlash will follow. Scientific studies support the safety of the food products, but surveys indicate many Americans remain jittery or harbor ethical concerns.
"A train wreck is coming," said Carol Tucker Foreman of the Consumer Federation of America. "It's not about the science. It's how people see their food."
Some consumer advocates and dairy companies have urged regulators to delay a decision until those fears can be calmed. Yet, with studies supporting the food's safety accumulating, the FDA has edged toward approval.
The FDA had said an announcement was likely within the next few weeks. But the recent, surprise resignation of FDA Commissioner Lester M. Crawford might delay it to the end of the year, or even longer, according to industry and consumer groups.
The decision would represent one of the first major acts by acting FDA Commissioner Andrew C. von Eschenbach.
When the FDA does make an announcement, the agency said, it would release the draft of a report on the safety of eating and drinking from cloned animals and, in all likelihood, tentative rules governing the sale of the foodstuffs.
"We're well-aware that there are many social and ethical issues related to the cloning of animals," Crawford said at a Sept. 19 food conference.
The FDA said its ruling would encompass cloning of goats, pigs and sheep, as well as cows.
Since 1997, Americans have been eating processed foods made with genetically modified vegetables, such as corn and soybeans.
But many consumers regard goats and pigs differently from canola and squash, polls show. And talk of cloning prompts fears straight out of science fiction movies.
A national survey last year by the Pew Initiative found that 57 percent of those polled opposed scientific research into the genetic modification of animals. Often, the reason cited was a fear of humans playing God, even among those who are not very religious.



Copyright 2005 IndyStar.com. All rights reserved

they clone cows??

I love false dilemmas.

How about a third option: "sounds fine to me!"

You obviously don't know the definition of false dilemma. "Intrinsically repugnant" holds the obvious connotation of being wrong, harmful, etc. "A sign of the times" suggest that it's something new, with the word "just" implying it's harmless. Eating cloned cows is certainly new. The question is the harmlessness, either it is or it isn't. That is by no means a false dilemma.

Your two options do not cover the entire spectrum of possible opinions on this topic. Therefore, it is a false dilemma.

One could think it is a marvelous idea, and if one felt that way, I doubt said person would agree that "just a sign of the times" accurately depicts his viewpoint.

According to the article, you're safe for the next four years. I have mixed feelings about "Frankenstein Food". Genetic altering and all that! It does seem like the answer with a lot of crops because they can make insect resistant crops. They also can make hardier seed which means less crop loss. It's kind of frightening, but there are a lot of benefits as long as they don't create something that causes us to grow a third eye

As far as cloning beef and other animals, that is probably where I draw the line as well. Yech!!

It's a matter of subtlety. You are right insofar as some people could think it's a great ideal, an ok ideal, a poor ideal, an awful ideal, etc. What I was trying to prompt people to think about with the title of the thread is if it trends toward the negative or the positive/inconsequential, in which case it is not a false dilemma.

Yeah, I'm with Bstumbo. I am not terribly excited about genetically altering crops, but I think it is necessary. However, cloning fundamentally alters the biological process of reproduction, and that's where I draw the line.

In what ways does it differ from the type of interference into the biological processes of reproduction that we have been doing for centuries?

A modern farm cow hardly bares any resemblance to a wild cow.

Mind you, I'm talking about cloning, not genetic engineering.

Because all previous modifications to beef cattle have fallen within the purview of natural reproduction. We may have chosen which cows reproduce, which grow to maturity or get served as veal, etc. We have pumped them with steroids and turned cattle farming into an operation resembling a factory. Yet, cows were still being born the old fashioned way. Cloning and then breeding clones and their offspring is fundamentally different in my view. I have no qualms with helping nature along; I have major reservations with fundamentally altering natural processes.

Cow-Clone Firms Hope to Copy Success
Prize animals draw top dollar

https://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/04/02/BU203467.DTL&type=business

The article basically supports how wonderful the cloning process is, and how incredibly happy that the cloners and the farmers are with the process. They just can see the dollar bills materializing before their very eyes. Like I say, the article is supportive, but here is what bothers me.

"Because much can go wrong during the next few months, this is one of the most significant concerns to emerge about the cloning of farm animals. A large percentage of surrogate mothers spontaneously abort early during pregnancy, presumably because the fetuses are abnormal.

Problems serious enough to threaten the life of the mother can crop up late in the pregnancy."

"The company has created 110 cattle clones and about 30 pig clones, he said. Numerous animals are pregnant. Of the embryos the company implants in surrogate cows in cloning attempts, just 17 percent result in live births.

"Still, that's an impressive figure when most laboratories are reporting 3 to 5 percent success rates."

So taking the absolute best success rate of 17% experienced by ONE Company, you still have the 83% that don't succeed. Of the 17% that do succeed, how many of those will develop problems when they begin to mature.

We don't know! The project isn't old enough to know. There is no real track record to tell us what indeed will happen.

For me, no cloned animals!

Yeah, I have thought about becoming a vegitarian for a little while now, not for moral reasons but for health reasons. If cloning moves beyond cows so will my restrictions.

Bravo, I thought your Zen Master was better!!

Eh, the cloned meat thing doesn't really bother me. After all, we do breed the cows specifically for eating. Why not make it easier and take the best super cow you can find and jsut clone it for more premium meat. Maybe that's just me though.