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chaski On 58 minutes ago
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#1New Post! Feb 12, 2020 @ 01:42:25
I was just listening to a radio discussion of on "human nature".

Essentially there have been, for a "long time", three primary views on human nature: Clean Slate, Noble Savage and Ghost in Machine.

1. Clean Slate... At birth humans have a "clean slate" and are thus subsequently formed by their upbringing combined with their environment, society, community, etc...

2. Noble Savage... suggests that humans are innately good, but are "corrupted" by civilization.

3. Ghost in the Machine... Humans are "controlled" by their soul. The soul is what makes us who/what we are... a good soul makes us good... a bad soul makes us bad...

Other ideas suggest that there are more complex "things" going on that range from genetics to hormones to "bad" wiring in the brain to evil supernatural influences...

I thing most of that is nonsense.

Humans are animals with a brain just advanced enough to start to doubt itself.... the fun part it the stories... the mythology... until the religion and politics kick in.
mrmhead 8 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#2New Post! Feb 12, 2020 @ 01:53:55
@chaski Said

I was just listening to a radio discussion of on "human nature".

Essentially there have been, for a "long time", three primary views on human nature: Clean Slate, Noble Savage and Ghost in Machine.

1. Clean Slate... At birth humans have a "clean slate" and are thus subsequently formed by their upbringing combined with their environment, society, community, etc...

2. Noble Savage... suggests that humans are innately good, but are "corrupted" by civilization.

3. Ghost in the Machine... Humans are "controlled" by their soul. The soul is what makes us who/what we are... a good soul makes us good... a bad soul makes us bad...

Other ideas suggest that there are more complex "things" going on that range from genetics to hormones to "bad" wiring in the brain to evil supernatural influences...

I thing most of that is nonsense.

Humans are animals with a brain just advanced enough to start to doubt itself.... the fun part it the stories... the mythology... until the religion and politics kick in.


The goal would be to model "it"
If we could model it then we could understand it, and explain it.


... but we can't.
chaski On 58 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#3New Post! Feb 12, 2020 @ 02:11:06
@mrmhead Said

The goal would be to model "it"
If we could model it then we could understand it, and explain it.


... but we can't.


Have you tried "magic mushrooms"?

mrmhead 8 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#4New Post! Feb 12, 2020 @ 02:15:03
@chaski Said

Have you tried "magic mushrooms"?




It does sound kind of poetic
prophetic
pathetic

.. Doesn't it!
darkman666 On about 12 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#5New Post! Feb 12, 2020 @ 02:54:02
1. Clean Slate... At birth humans have a "clean slate" and are thus subsequently formed by their upbringing combined with their environment, society, community, etc...

2. Noble Savage... suggests that humans are innately good, but are "corrupted" by civilization.

3. Ghost in the Machine... Humans are "controlled" by their soul. The soul is what makes us who/what we are... a good soul makes us good... a bad soul makes us bad...


this could explain where the original sin is about.

1. adam and eve had a clean state, because their innocents.

2. noble savage - when adam and eve met the snake. the snake corrupt both adam and eve for adam make a choice.

3. ghost in the machine - more or less, prove adam was human.

4. original sin is probably it wasn't god ask adam and eve to leave eden- but adam and eve decide on own to leave eden.
GreatestIam2 On about 2 hours ago




Ottawa, Canada
#6New Post! Feb 19, 2020 @ 16:25:48
@chaski Said

I was just listening to a radio discussion of on "human nature".

Essentially there have been, for a "long time", three primary views on human nature: Clean Slate, Noble Savage and Ghost in Machine.

1. Clean Slate... At birth humans have a "clean slate" and are thus subsequently formed by their upbringing combined with their environment, society, community, etc...

2. Noble Savage... suggests that humans are innately good, but are "corrupted" by civilization.

3. Ghost in the Machine... Humans are "controlled" by their soul. The soul is what makes us who/what we are... a good soul makes us good... a bad soul makes us bad...
.


Your 1 has been debunked by baby science.

Your 2 is correct except for the corruption part. civilization just has us thinking more demographically and that is civilizing and not corrupting.

3 is the closest if you change soul to instincts. Those are always good unless defects are created in our DNA by sub atomic particles or disease.

We default to cooperation and doing good as that is the best survival strategy.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On about 2 hours ago




Ottawa, Canada
#7New Post! Feb 19, 2020 @ 16:30:23
@darkman666 Said



2. noble savage - when adam and eve met the snake. the snake corrupt both adam and eve for adam make a choice.



Christians seem to disagree with you as they sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

They seem to run from explaining their two sided view of sin being necessary, while they still call it a fall.

Dumb is as dumb thinks.

Regards
DL
chaski On 58 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#8New Post! about 24 hours ago
@GreatestIam2 Said

Your 1 has been debunked by baby science.

Your 2 is correct except for the corruption part. civilization just has us thinking more demographically and that is civilizing and not corrupting.

3 is the closest if you change soul to instincts. Those are always good unless defects are created in our DNA by sub atomic particles or disease.

We default to cooperation and doing good as that is the best survival strategy.

Regards
DL



1. "Your"... NO... they are not "mine". I was presenting what others have opined per the a radio discussion of on "human nature" which I had been listening to.
.
2. Same.
GreatestIam2 On about 2 hours ago




Ottawa, Canada
#9New Post! about 24 hours ago
@chaski Said

1. "Your"... NO... they are not "mine". I was presenting what others have opined per the a radio discussion of on "human nature" which I had been listening to.
.


If you did not agree with their opinion, you would not likely use it.

We all have our style though. Carry on.

Regards
DL
darkman666 On about 12 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#10New Post! about 23 hours ago
@GreatestIam2 Said

Christians seem to disagree with you as they sing that Adam's sin was a happy fault and necessary to god's plan.

They seem to run from explaining their two sided view of sin being necessary, while they still call it a fall.

Dumb is as dumb thinks.

Regards
DL



i have heard this above in different term, that adam's sin biting the apple, is called " that man is god's biggest mistake " .
chaski On 58 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#11New Post! about 21 hours ago
@GreatestIam2 Said

If you did not agree with their opinion, you would not likely use it.


?

I used the three positions, presented in the radio show, as subject matter for a topic of discussion.

In fact, in my original post I specifically stated: "I think most of that is nonsense"
mrmhead 8 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#12New Post! about 21 hours ago
@GreatestIam2 Said


3 is the closest if you change soul to instincts. Those are always good unless defects are created in our DNA by sub atomic particles or disease.



I would agree with this.

But then we can take it down a level and ask "where do instincts come from?"

How do Monarchs that grew and evolved in middle North America know to fly to Mexico for the winter?

(I forget if it's two or three generations for the round-trip)
GreatestIam2 On about 2 hours ago




Ottawa, Canada
#13New Post! about 19 hours ago
@darkman666 Said

i have heard this above in different term, that adam's sin biting the apple, is called " that man is god's biggest mistake " .


I would say that belief in a literal supernatural realm and god is religions greatest mistake, given that it has made them idol worship a real prick of a god.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On about 2 hours ago




Ottawa, Canada
#14New Post! about 19 hours ago
@mrmhead Said

I would agree with this.

But then we can take it down a level and ask "where do instincts come from?"

How do Monarchs that grew and evolved in middle North America know to fly to Mexico for the winter?

(I forget if it's two or three generations for the round-trip)


Instincts, obviously, comes from nature and took millions of years to evolve to our complexity.

Science is showing us that life is tenacious and will pop up in many diverse and even toxic places.

Regards
DL
chaski On 58 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#15New Post! about 16 hours ago
@GreatestIam2 Said

Instincts, obviously, comes from nature and took millions of years to evolve to our complexity.

Science is showing us that life is tenacious and will pop up in many diverse and even toxic places.

Regards
DL



I think that "instinct" was encoded into "us" by Yahweh, and it only took one day... or seven days if you want to count the whole process.

It is the only explanation of how we are able to breath.





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