How Long?

@chisa96 Said

Okay, my brother put us all through hell. We actually feared for our lives and the safety of our kids. He screamed at us, berrated us, got physical with some of us. My sister thought she would lose her job because she couldn't have a daycare with this crazy guy out in the yard screaming obscenities about things that made no sense. My brother-in-law thought he would lose his job by snapping and punching him. They both thought they would have to move because he started threatening them. My dad thought they would end up in a fight that would leave one of them dead. I was scared that he would claim some kind of ownership to my home because he used to live here.

It sucked. He put us through hell. He was out of his head insane.

He's doing great now. He's finally faced the fact that he wasn't well, and has taken amazing strides to work with medications. He continues to work with it. For quite a while now, he's something like the guy he used to be, and we've all let go of the things he said and did before, because he was crazy at the time.

My sister and her family won't though. They still rant about him. They won't be near him, to the point that my mom has to have separate events if she wants to celebrate a holiday with all of her kids. I'm so angry with them about this. My mom deserves better than that; she finally gets her son back and she still can't have her family together because they won't let go of a grudge. My dad let it go, and they literally tried to kill each other. That's what families do.

I'm giving them until this next holiday season. If they think that they're still going to hold a grudge against him for how he was when he was sick now that he's well again, if they think that they're going to keep my mom in this position of having to choose between them on who she wants to invite... I'm going to flip my s*** on them. If they rant about him to me one more time, I'm going to tell them exactly what I think about their attitudes. It's bulls***. He's their f***ing brother and they need to put on their big girl panties and move the f*** on.

Is this unreasonable?

@alk1975 Said

Everyone has a right to feel however they feel, and a right to tell others how they feel. Your sister and brother in law have a right to remain angry, and nothing you say or do can change that. It will likely just create an additional rift in the family. However, being angry with them is also your right and if you want to let them know how you feel, go ahead, you have that right. Personally, I would first work on empathizing with them, and then approach them in a calm and sympathetic manner with your concerns (without housing them in anger), and in doing so I would attempt to build their empathy for the brother who was mentally ill at the time. I would at least hear what it is they had to say while trying to diffuse their anger. Then I would let it be, because ultimately it is up to them to decide.

@chisa96 Said

I wouldn't actually yell at them; it's why I write angrily here. Even if I did though, something like that wouldn't cause a substantial rift. We'd just be mad for a while, and then their kids would want to play with our kid, or we'd need the other's help with some project, or we'd just forget. It's the nature of family to fight with your siblings sometimes and still have a strong relationship with them.

And while I wouldn't approach them yelling, someone needs to tell them how selfish they're being. They can feel how they want, hate him forever if they choose to, but they need to at least tolerate each other for the holidays. My mom deserves that much and they f***ing know it.

I get that they were scared. I get that he said horrible things to them. I get that he harrassed them and that they got to the point where they wanted nothing more to do with him. I was there too; it was all perfectly reasonable at the time. I agreed. We were all burned, abused, and treated like we betrayed our brother. I understand how badly that hurt, and how frustrating it all was. I get their side. And even if I didn't, they don't hold back sharing their perspective.

It sucked. He was an utter jackass. Now he's not, and they need to get over it, just enough to tolerate his presence for family events.

@alk1975 Said

It's the nature of some families, not the nature of all families. Great that it works that way for you. As far as what they need to do, that is a matter of opinion. You still can't force them to do what they don't want to do. They don't have to tolerate him to make your mom happy or you happy or anyone else happy. The fact of the matter is, they hold no responsibility for how your mom feels. You or she or anyone else can like or not like that, but they just aren't obligated.

@chisa96 Said

I know that it's not all families. I'm talking about my own here...

And none of that changes that she deserves better, and that I will tell them so if this continues too long. Does that translate into forcing them to do anything? I shall tell them exactly what I think, not bind them and drag them there by gunpoint.

@alk1975 Said

As I stated earlier, I have no problem with you telling them what you think. However, your comments here have not sounded like that at all. They sound like you are going to tell them what you expect them to do, and then expect them to do it. Quite honestly, if that were the way you viewed the world, then I would have the impression you were too closely enmeshed with your family for it to be healthy. Every person chooses where to set their boundaries, but every person needs some boundaries. Your sister just sounds as though she is more sure of where hers are than you are of yours.

@chisa96 Said

How does it become unhealthy to tell a sibling, or a friend for that matter, when you think they're acting s***tily and why you think that? It would be more healthy to pretend that I don't think they're handling it poorly and selfishly? It would be more healthy to not to tell the people in my life what I think and feel? Would it be more healthy not to express anger when you are angry with them?

Strange.

@alk1975 Said

The relationship as a whole, not the one situation. I would really love at this point if you would please quote where I said don't tell them how you feel. I never said pretend you like what they are doing. I specifically said that if you did think that you had some right to tell them how to behave. You claim that was not what you were saying at all, and yet it sounded very much like that is what you were saying, which is why my use of the word IF. I didn't assume you did think this or you didn't think this. I said IF. And I stand by what I said. IF you think you have some right to tell your sibs how they need to behave (vs explaining your feelings to them, because that is two entirely different things), then you SOUND as if you are overly enmeshed. Overly enmeshed implies a lack of boundaries, and I do not find that healthy. It doesn't have s*** to do with telling them how you feel, and I never said it did.

And now I think I'm done with this thread, as I'm getting irritated. You on the other hand can choose to continue or not as I recognize your right to do as you please with it.

@chisa96 Said

Touchy. This stuff is personal to me. Shouldn't I be the one easily irritated?

You responded to a post where I explained that I was going to tell them exactly what I think, not force them, with something about how it sounds like I expect that they will bend to my will.

I had already covered that. Should I do so over and over so as to get you acknowledge that part or not irritate you, or just say that you're right?

Quote:
How does it become unhealthy to tell a sibling, or a friend, or anyone you are close to for that matter, when you think they're acting s***tily and why you think that? It would be more healthy to pretend that you don't think they're handling it poorly and selfishly? It would be more healthy to not to tell the people in your life what you think and feel? Would it be more healthy not to express anger when you are angry with them? Strange.

Quote:
but they need to at least tolerate each other for the holidays. My mom deserves that much and they f***ing know it. I get that they were scared. I get that he said horrible things to them. I get that he harrassed them and that they got to the point where they wanted nothing more to do with him. I was there too; it was all perfectly reasonable at the time. I agreed. We were all burned, abused, and treated like we betrayed our brother. I understand how badly that hurt, and how frustrating it all was. I get their side. And even if I didn't, they don't hold back sharing their perspective. It sucked. He was an utter jackass. Now he's not, and they need to get over it, just enough to tolerate his presence for family events.

@alk1975 Said

irritated by your lack of understanding, not of the situation you are in, for the record. I said tell them what you think, understand they are not obligated to give a s*** what you think, and you ranted directly at me with this comment:

You clearly failed to understand what I was saying, so I was done for the night.

as for your final comment about it only being in the op, I actually was thinking this sounded more like you expect them to listen to you than does the op:


This doesn't sound even a little bit like you are talking about telling them what you think. It sounds like you are going to dictate what you expect from them and then you are going to expect it of them, so you can think that my comments are unreasonable or not, I don't really care, but they were grounded in what I saw of your posts and not some random emotional response to your family.

@chisa96 Said

You think so? I think it sounds like exactly why I'm angry about it. But you're right, I'm the one that misunderstood. That's why the first sentence of that very post clarifies that I wouldn't even yell about this, hence the ranting nature here to vent. But that part doesn't leave you the chance to assess the nature of this situation to be unhealthy. But it's cool. If it eases your irritation to assume that we're unhealthy, you go for it.