I would love some clarification on this. To you christianty will never be wrong, to me it is.
Sure. Clarification: "Christianity is wrong because it believess it is the only one right." But, such is the nature of truth. The sky is blue. You can believe it's plaid, you can want it to be plaid, you can start an entire diverse group of people that belive it's plaid. But the truth is it's blue, and that's the only truth (unless you're on the side of extreme relativism, but then you're not even sure you exist, so it's kinda hard to argue).
Like I said in the other thread, something cannot both be true and untrue at the same time. Either one is right or it is wrong. It cannot be both for the sake of "diversity". I am convinced a lot of people don't believe this simply because they don't want to believe it. It's "unfair", so they can't possibly consider it. That fairness concept is an interesting issue too...
Also, Christianity without man-made alterations is never wrong. Christians, on the other hand, are often wrong about many, many things. Depends on whether you're talking about "it" or "us".
No man doesn't do bad things in the name of religion anymore.
of idiots do bad things in the name of religion. People look at them and ignore us. The bad stands out so much better than the good in this world.
Everyone should always be included. Period. We are all here, and have to get along.
But this is exaggerated. If so, then no one can ever be separated to any extent anywhere. I can't have a chess club because I'm excluding checker players. I can't have christianity because I'm excluding satanists. We can't have a democracy because we're excluding anarchists. I can't go to a boys school because I'm excluding girls.
Racism, agism, all forms of hate-driven separation are the exclusions we must eliminate. Some others, however, simply group us together and hurt no one. Our own singles group excludes married people.
So everyone should always be included?
is this the contradiction
It's one of them. The other is you implied we shouldn't generalize, in saying that Chrisitanity generalizes gays as flaming (which mine doesn't), as one example. Then you generalized christians.
and vice versa
Not exactly. Conservatives aren't arguing against exluding anyone (at least in this sense), so we're not contradicing ourselves. Liberals are arguing against exluding anyone from anything (relating thusly to above argument) and are thus contradicting themselves by excluding conservatives, theoretically.
Though, on the other hand, neither should be entirely excluded from the other. Only to the extent of the lines upon which they disagree.
Does your church think i am going to heaven or hell? I know they don't make a judgement, but what do they think my fate is. Please don't say they don't think about it. They are there for a reason. So where do i stand?
Well, the interesting thing about the church of Christ is that even members within the same church will have different views, so I suppose it depends on who you ask. Here is my answer: I don't know. Generally speaking, those who do not accept Christ cannot enter heaven, and this is logical. Can't invite someone to live with you who doesn't accept you. However, I don't know if it's that cut and dry, because of these factors:
1) Chrisitans may not judge. There's a reason for that. There's some things we don't know in order to do so.
2) God is a just judge.
3) There is a verse, and I need to get around to finding it again, that says people are judged in accordance to what they know. Does your lack of acceptance stem from a lack of such knowledge? I have no idea, but that could come into play. I remember that scripture goes further to explain that people who lack knowledge are judged in accordance to how they lived their lives without that knowledge. It's an interesting concept I want to learn more about myself.
I'm gonna pause on (3) here for a moment. I learned about this verse because I had this question: What happens to someone who never heard of Jesus? Granted, it's rare nowadays, but go somewhere like the backwoods of Kuzwakistan and you'll find undeveloped communities where no one has ever seen the outside world or even heard of christianity. So are they going to hell for being ignorant? That would seem to violate (2). So I finally happened upon that verse, which answers that. They still can make it, just depends on what they did with what they did know.
So, my answer to your question to your fate is: I have no clue. I would much rather have you over here where I know your fate's taken care of, but beyond that I can't say. I'm not the judge. It worries me though, and I want to do all I can to help avoid such a tragic end.
Yes, we talk about that often at church.
4) Christ suffered and died to offer the free gift of salvation. If you don't take the free gift, it's kinda hard to do anything further. The only "price" you have to pay is living for God best you can, which is hardly unpleasant.
No just let the people that want to have sex with each other make their own choice.
We do let them. All we do (or are supposed to do) is 1) voice our views and 2) oppose laws that subject their views upon ours. As long as the majority of people vote against it, any law made for it is oppressive. Now if the majority of the American people were to shift and vote for such laws, then that would change the playing field altogether.
A step beyond that, we voice our opposition because we love people. We can't just "let them be" because doing so would be selfish. "It's not my problem." What kind of love is that? If I see you stabbing yourself, I'm not going to say "Well he has a right to stab himself. I'll leave him alone." Because I care about people, I'll step up to intervene.
But there's a line. We oppose but do not oppress, and we have to be careful not to cross that line, else the judgement turns on us. Jesus is the perfect example of this. He told people when what they were doing was wrong, wether it was "his problem" or not, but if they refused to listen, then he didn't shove it down their throats; he let them go their own way.
What can i do to make sure I have a happy place to go to.
You begin by questioning, like you are now. Question reality. Question tradition. Question religion. Question society. Question yourself. Then, you investigate. You look past biases. You research. You read from the source. You study with others. You set yourself to rise above all biases and seek only the truth in its purest form. You ask God. You open your mind, and you open your heart. Then, things just start happening.
But, the christian walk isn't about just having a happy place to go to. If you follow Jesus only to go to heaven, you missed the whole point. The point is for us to be with our Creator, to experience ultimate love, and ultimate unison with Him and each other. If you focus on just "not going to hell" then you never really understand what's going on. It's about humanity reaching it's ultimate potential and surpassing it. It's about seeing that God isn't some old guy zapping people with lightning bolts from a cloud, but rather He is a kind, loving, but firm Father who is desperate to bring His children home and retrieve them back from Satan's grasp. Satan is the hell-bringer; the one seeking judgement on all; the source of death, pain, sorrow, dispair, and evil. When you hurt, when you're betrayed, when you're broken, it's because of Satan, not God.
So, how do you assure you're going to a happy place? My ultimate answer is that you're asking the wrong question. It's not just about being happy; it's about fulfilling purpose, meaning -- achieving fullness and perfect goodness free of evil and sadness. As a child embracing a mother, we embrace our Father.
Man, I wish I had a shorter way of answering that...That was a loaded question!
Your church actually sounds cool, very modern.
Thanks. I think it is. One of our goals is to throw off all impeding man-made traditions so that we can embrace Jesus without any of the extra bells and whistles the denominations have added over the centuries. You might say we're modern and ancient at the same time; perhaps a sort of balance of both. Not perfect, mind you, but that's what we're going after.
Your being cutely mean here, but it is in fun. I am sharing. Your the one that knows what it takes to get to heaven. I am only talking about the places i have been. ( hey i read the hitchhikers guide ). There is not one view or else we would agree, that was my point.
Well, the point I was making is that you can't say you know everything in the universe is singular because you don't know everything in the universe. Earth and our immediate galaxy are a far cry from the universe. Right, I'm the one saying I know how to "get to heaven" for lack of better words, but I don't have to know the entire universe to come to that conclusion, thankfully!
If I wasn't cutely mean, you'd get bored.
I need to pick up the Hitchhiker's Guide too...I've never read it (hides face in shame).
Baker, Binny Hinn, just bad bad examples of what I am saying. I am sure all the other ministers in the world are perfect creations, but the ones i have seen/met tend to really use their tithe money for helping the homeless.
Oh man, I CRINGE at the mention of Benny Hinn. Ugh, I can't stand those guys...No minister is a perfect creatio -- which leads me to an interesting point. To each their own, but my church doesn't elevate a minister above anyone else -- he's just the guy who teaches, who has done the studying and knows how to teach and speak, and meets the biblical standards laid out in one of the two Timothy books (I forget which, I think the first one). He's a leader. We don't call him anything special. Well, I call my preacher Chuck.
They're just normal dudes and are the first to tell you they are.
I hope their faith carries them through. Do you think you will be hanging out with your friend in heaven?
Same answer as above. I don't know, but I would sure like to show her what's over here so I can make sure. If you grew up Islam, raised Islam, knew nothing but Islam, then does the "in accordance to what you know" concept apply? I really don't know.
You will never catch me telling anyone they're going to hell. You will catch me trying to show people what I can, though, in hopes of preventing it.
It's really comforting getting to have this discussion without the attackers too. Doesn't happen often. I appreciate your trying to understand. It admittedly isn't the easiest thing in the world.