The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums:
Religion & Philosophy

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 · >>
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#1New Post! Mar 18, 2014 @ 00:09:00
Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

The Gnostic wing of Christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to Christianity and Catholicism.

If the old Gnostic Christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original Orthodox Catholic Church or it's various offshoots in Protestantism or Islam. The Gnostic Christian Jesus would have a fit and would be quite disappointed I think. I know that this Gnostic Christian is.

The two main differences that moved the old Christians to kill Gnostic Christians and burn their scriptures was literalism in reading scriptures and the fact that the Gnostic version of Jesus was a Universalist.

That Gnostic Christian Jesus, and the Gnostic Christians of that flavor, (there are likely as many Gnostic sects as Christian sects), sees a spark of God in all people including women and gays. That fact, to me, makes Gnostic Christianity a more desirable denomination of Christianity than all the rest.

If a religion cannot abide with equality of the sexes then to my mind it is not a just religion and is not worthy of the support of moral people. Inequality is an immoral position and most of the Abrahamic cults are of that immoral persuasion.

As the superior Catholic theology, it is my hope that Gnostic Christianity will eventually bury the non-egalitarian and immoral Christian cults as their members recognize that equality is the right moral system for all to live under.

If you have investigated Gnostic Christianity, do you agree that from a moral POV, they are the superior Christian theology thanks to equality and Universalism?

Regards
DL
someone_else_again On May 20, 2021
Really. Not a dude.





, Washington
#2New Post! Mar 18, 2014 @ 21:50:03
I have investigated it a little bit. Being as there is just as much division in the Gnostic Christian "Church" as there is in the Protestant (?) Christian Church, I don't find it to be superior, just different.

Due to the vagueness in which Gnosticism is described, I find it difficult to understand why they are called 'Christians' if they consider Jesus to only be a leader.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#3New Post! Mar 19, 2014 @ 19:48:56
As I understand it, and cutting to fundamentals, at heart Gnosticism is dualistic. From what I have read, it speaks of matter and spirit as being separate, it speaks of this world as being the product of a "Being" less than good. It seems to speak of our need to "escape" this world.

I would repudiate all this. I think orthodox Christianity was correct in seeing this world as the product of a "good" God (but just add that personally I see "life" as being intrinsic (or a priori) to Reality and not something "created" and added to it by a "Being" beyond it)

For me the saddest thing about all this is, that when the beliefs of many Christians are looked at, they may as well be gnostics - this in their repudiation of this world for some imagined other, and their fear of "the world" - and personally I find that the God they often claim to love, drawn as it is from a literalist reading of the OT record, is unworthy of worship and beyond intelligent belief.

The potential of Christianity to transcend the gnostic "heresies" ( ) is thus largely destroyed and the full implications of the Incarnation rejected.

Of course, I may be wrong.........
Electric_Banana On February 05, 2024




, New Zealand
#4New Post! Mar 19, 2014 @ 22:22:28
With expectations that God/Jesus are (is) meant to be kind and good - The Gnostics would be closer to God than any other Christian sect.

But....

I was watching the movie Angel Heart again and Robert De Niro's character was always found sitting in the back of his church - The Catholic church.

Under the assumption that church jumping is part of a long educational process that teaches through backwards psychology - Rather ethical preachings, or not, the churches would have a reputation to live up too.
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#5New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 00:22:42
@someone_else_again Said

I have investigated it a little bit. Being as there is just as much division in the Gnostic Christian "Church" as there is in the Protestant (?) Christian Church, I don't find it to be superior, just different.

Due to the vagueness in which Gnosticism is described, I find it difficult to understand why they are called 'Christians' if they consider Jesus to only be a leader.


Strange that you do not see equality of all a plus to Christianity.

What is wrong with seeing Jesus as a leader. The Jews always had their messiah living and leading. Not dying like some Christian invented scapegoat with a God /Judge who sets and accepts bribes and sacrifices to corrupt his judgements.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#6New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 00:30:29
@dookie Said

As I understand it, and cutting to fundamentals, at heart Gnosticism is dualistic. From what I have read, it speaks of matter and spirit as being separate, it speaks of this world as being the product of a "Being" less than good. It seems to speak of our need to "escape" this world.

I would repudiate all this. I think orthodox Christianity was correct in seeing this world as the product of a "good" God (but just add that personally I see "life" as being intrinsic (or a priori) to Reality and not something "created" and added to it by a "Being" beyond it)

For me the saddest thing about all this is, that when the beliefs of many Christians are looked at, they may as well be gnostics - this in their repudiation of this world for some imagined other, and their fear of "the world" - and personally I find that the God they often claim to love, drawn as it is from a literalist reading of the OT record, is unworthy of worship and beyond intelligent belief.

The potential of Christianity to transcend the gnostic "heresies" ( ) is thus largely destroyed and the full implications of the Incarnation rejected.

Of course, I may be wrong.........


Many of the Gnostic Christian beliefs are not well understood.

We do not believe in any of the Gods and see them all as myths so to say we believe in this or that is rather silly. As you say, there are many sects and Gnostic Christianity is rebuilding itself to accommodate modern knowledge.

But just to clear up the matter issue you brought up. First, it is the Christian God who cursed the whole earth from Eden.

Second, we believe that a spark of God is within all of us. We are matter and from that POV, we do not see any corruption of the temple of God. Matter then, we would consider perfect as befits being created by a God.

A Gnostic Christian, once enlightened, can look about and see that all around us is evolving perfection.

Regards
DL
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#7New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 00:34:30
@GreatestIam2 Said

Strange that you do not see equality of all a plus to Christianity.

What is wrong with seeing Jesus as a leader. The Jews always had their messiah living and leading. Not dying like some Christian invented scapegoat with a God /Judge who sets and accepts bribes and sacrifices to corrupt his judgements.

Regards
DL



I believe he didn't mean anything wrong with seeing him as a leader, but didn't agree with them seeing Christ only as a leader. Nothing more, nothing less. Gnostic Christians are different indeed. There are things in there that I don't fully understand.

I don't know about this "issue" you keep referring too and complain about, but it is really starting to bother me. If all Christians are the same then what makes Gnostic Christians different?
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#8New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 00:34:31
@Electric_Banana Said

With expectations that God/Jesus are (is) meant to be kind and good - The Gnostics would be closer to God than any other Christian sect.

But....

I was watching the movie Angel Heart again and Robert De Niro's character was always found sitting in the back of his church - The Catholic church.

Under the assumption that church jumping is part of a long educational process that teaches through backwards psychology - Rather ethical preachings, or not, the churches would have a reputation to live up too.


I cannot see many of the Abrahamic cults getting a pass from a moral perspective. Possibly some of the Jewish sects but I am not sure.

The Gnostic Christian sect seems the most moral thanks to Universality and equality of all people.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#9New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 00:38:33
@Cpat92 Said

I believe he didn't mean anything wrong with seeing him as a leader, but didn't agree with them seeing Christ only as a leader. Nothing more, nothing less. Gnostic Christians are different indeed. There are things in there that I don't fully understand.

I don't know about this "issue" you keep referring too and complain about, but it is really starting to bother me. If all Christians are the same then what makes Gnostic Christians different?


All Christians are not the same and Gnostic Christians are a cut above as we do not discriminate or denigrate women and gays without just cause like the bulk of the other Abrahamic cults.

It is immoral to deny equality to half of the planet just because they are women and gays.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL
Cpat92 On May 16, 2021
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#10New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 00:54:54
@GreatestIam2 Said

All Christians are not the same and Gnostic Christians are a cut above as we do not discriminate or denigrate women and gays without just cause like the bulk of the other Abrahamic cults.

It is immoral to deny equality to half of the planet just because they are women and gays.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL



Agree it's wrong to deny equality. It is also wrong to think are a cut above others solely based off of religion.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#11New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 07:46:43
@GreatestIam2 Said

Many of the Gnostic Christian beliefs are not well understood.


"Beliefs" as such have great potential for being misunderstood. Not least our own. Which for me is one of the differences between faith and belief.

@GreatestIam2 Said

We do not believe in any of the Gods and see them all as myths so to say we believe in this or that is rather silly. As you say, there are many sects and Gnostic Christianity is rebuilding itself to accommodate modern knowledge.


AAs I see it, allegiance to a God as a Being, rather than as the Ground of Being itself, will always be part idol and "mythic"


@GreatestIam2 Said

But just to clear up the matter issue you brought up. First, it is the Christian God who cursed the whole earth from Eden.


Irrespective, a God who is deemed as being "apart" and cursing, is an idol/mythic.

@GreatestIam2 Said

Second, we believe that a spark of God is within all of us. We are matter and from that POV, we do not see any corruption of the temple of God. Matter then, we would consider perfect as befits being created by a God.


As I see it, "sparks within us" is a dualistic way of understanding. The orthodox Christian understanding (God "cursing" or not.... ) that ALL was perfect and that ALL is contaminated is closer to truth.

Hunting for the spark, believing in a spark, thinking our own spark is bigger than anothers spark.......all poison.

@GreatestIam2 Said

A Gnostic Christian, once enlightened, can look about and see that all around us is evolving perfection.


This leads on from the previous answer. As I see it, it is better to have the Faith that there will be a reconciliation of all things than to believe that we are enlightened and others are not.

Thanks
someone_else_again On May 20, 2021
Really. Not a dude.





, Washington
#12New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 16:40:08
@GreatestIam2 Said

Strange that you do not see equality of all a plus to Christianity.

What is wrong with seeing Jesus as a leader. The Jews always had their messiah living and leading. Not dying like some Christian invented scapegoat with a God /Judge who sets and accepts bribes and sacrifices to corrupt his judgements.

Regards
DL



You inserted an idea that I did not present and completely missed the emphasis of my post.

A leader =/= the leader.
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#13New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 23:43:56
@Cpat92 Said

Agree it's wrong to deny equality. It is also wrong to think are a cut above others solely based off of religion.


What is wrong with acknowledging the truth?

You have just admitted that ours is the more moral position.

If that is not a cut above then what is?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#14New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 23:49:25
@dookie Said

"Beliefs" as such have great potential for being misunderstood. Not least our own. Which for me is one of the differences between faith and belief.



AAs I see it, allegiance to a God as a Being, rather than as the Ground of Being itself, will always be part idol and "mythic"




Irrespective, a God who is deemed as being "apart" and cursing, is an idol/mythic.



As I see it, "sparks within us" is a dualistic way of understanding. The orthodox Christian understanding (God "cursing" or not.... ) that ALL was perfect and that ALL is contaminated is closer to truth.

Hunting for the spark, believing in a spark, thinking our own spark is bigger than anothers spark.......all poison.



This leads on from the previous answer. As I see it, it is better to have the Faith that there will be a reconciliation of all things than to believe that we are enlightened and others are not.

Thanks


So no one is allowed to think themselves more advanced than others to your thinking.

That after the certainty of how you cut and slashed through the various point I put down.

That is quite hypocritical of you. Ignorant in fact.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#15New Post! Apr 01, 2014 @ 23:50:49
Oops
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 · >>

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Be Respectful of Others

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Fri Feb 11, 2011 @ 22:46
7 1796
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Sun Nov 14, 2010 @ 16:04
0 463
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Wed Sep 01, 2010 @ 21:32
22 1380
New posts   Religion
Wed May 24, 2006 @ 09:00
14 950
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Mon Jan 12, 2009 @ 22:54
3 747