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chaski On April 19, 2024
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#46New Post! Jan 21, 2020 @ 05:08:39
@4d4m Said

Didn't these guys who call themselves "the Base" get detained because they were going to create "havoc with violence" at the protest?



I don't know...

If they were ANTIFA... yes.

If they were right wing/white supremacists... no.

mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#47New Post! Jan 21, 2020 @ 12:40:50
@4d4m Said

Didn't these guys who call themselves "the Base" get detained because they were going to create "havoc with violence" at the protest?



The trio arrested this week face various federal charges, including transporting a machine gun and harboring an illegal alien.

And the Red Flag law isn't a law in Virginia.

You really need to start looking things up for yourself.


.... and, this really drains the validity of your statements in other threads where I haven't cared to look things up.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#48New Post! Jan 21, 2020 @ 17:19:44
@mrmhead Said

The trio arrested this week face various federal charges, including transporting a machine gun and harboring an illegal alien.

And the Red Flag law isn't a law in Virginia.

You really need to start looking things up for yourself.


.... and, this really drains the validity of your statements in other threads where I haven't cared to look things up.



The group arrested by the FBI was arrested before the Richmond VA demonstrations because they had planned violent action. From NPR . If you note in the article the agency started investigating them in earnest last July. The charges they have against these men seem sufficient to have warranted arresting them at least by last December. The FBI has made a press move to signify the reason was to prevent violence at the demonstration.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#49New Post! Jan 21, 2020 @ 17:24:11
This is new information. Instead of letting Chaski put words in my mouth, read the post. I never said they were or weren't guilty of a crime. I used the post to speculate and pointed out the constitutionality question of whether the Red Flag laws in Washington were justified.
The second point is, why would the FBI not have arrested them back in December? It is possible they hoped to gain more intel by watching them, seeing who they associate with and etcetera and the risk of violent action impelled them to act. If so there is no reason to announce their arrest at all as this would compromise their information gathering efforts and possibly scare away other suspects. All this is ongoing.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#50New Post! Jan 21, 2020 @ 17:43:58
My point wasn't whether or not these guys are guilty of a crime. I speculated they may or may not be guilty of a crime. How would we know at the time of the announcement?
My point was about the law itself. Laws enabling law enforcement free reign to arrest people without judicial oversight enables abuse of power. They may arrest 100 people who are guilty of a crime and in the middle of all that label a political activist guilty of the same crime to make them disappear. This goes against the founding principles of our country.
As an example I cited the events of Waco TX where a Federal Law enforcement raid resulted in the unnecessary loss of innocent lives to arrest a few people for charges that were never verified as being true. The enabling law was the declaration of "The War on Drugs" (a national emergency) that allowed such unwarranted action.
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#51New Post! Jan 21, 2020 @ 18:33:09
@4d4m Said

The funny part about the whole official dialogue is going to be " isn't it great that we used the Red Flag Law to prevent violence at your protest against our Red Flag Law." courtesy of the FBI


OK
To put it another way:

You can't use a law that doesn't exist to arrest somebody.
chaski On April 19, 2024
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#52New Post! Jan 21, 2020 @ 20:53:05
@4d4m Said

This is new information. Instead of letting Chaski put words in my mouth, .



When did I put words in your mouth? Be specific.
chaski On April 19, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#53New Post! Jan 21, 2020 @ 20:54:14
@4d4m Said

Laws enabling law enforcement free reign to arrest people without judicial oversight enables abuse of power.



Please give an example of one such law in the USA.

>>> Be specific.<<<
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#54New Post! Jan 22, 2020 @ 03:50:02
They enabling of law enforcement abuse is done through executive orders, which are sort of like declaring martial law but only in regard to specific threats. The executive orders issued are not laws but are the ability of the executive to bypass the law because of the "emergency."
The next time I feel you put words in my mouth I'll let you know.
chaski On April 19, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#55New Post! Jan 22, 2020 @ 04:14:39
@4d4m Said


The executive orders issued are not laws but are the ability of the executive to bypass the law because of the "emergency."


Specific example please.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#56New Post! Jan 22, 2020 @ 06:15:12
The declaration of the "War on Drugs" is one example and we've talked about it here.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#57New Post! Jan 22, 2020 @ 06:19:15
I'm very happy that no violent acts were committed that could have marred the protest for the preservation of 2nd Amendment Rights in Virginia. The undermining of this important issue by racist extremists has been a problem in the past.
chaski On April 19, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#58New Post! Jan 22, 2020 @ 16:24:08
@4d4m Said

The declaration of the "War on Drugs" is one example and we've talked about it here.


Ok... please provide the relevant Executive Order that was used to "bypass the law" relative to the War on Drugs.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#59New Post! Jan 23, 2020 @ 06:31:32
Here's a document and I'll paste a couple of excerpts.

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6741&context=jclc
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#60New Post! Jan 23, 2020 @ 06:32:54
19921 ASSET FORFEITURE 275Justice created the National Assets Seizure and Forfeiture Fund and collected $27 million from drug-related forfeitures. The yearly acquisitions have grown to almost $500 million in 1990.
3 At least $1.4 billion more in real and personal property has been seized and currently awaits forfeiture.
4 These efforts will doubtless continue in earnest since they are supported by the highest levels of authority.President Bush has boasted that "asset forfeiture laws allow us to take the ill-gotten gains of drug kingpins and use them to put more cops on the streets and more prosecutors in court."
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