God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

Ottawa, Canada

Jun 02, 2012 @ 00:01:59

God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_fjBkwxc&feature=related

I think that the notion that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty perpetrator is immoral. Be it a willing sacrifice as some believe with Jesus or unwilling victim.

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

I agree with scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own righteousness as well as our own iniquity and that God cannot be bribed by sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

I believe as I do because I believe that the first rule of morality is harm/care of children.

https://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

Do you agree that the notion of substitutionary atonement is immoral and that God’s first principle of morality is hare/harm and that this would prevent him from demanding the death of his son?

Regards
DL

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#2

Jun 02, 2012 @ 00:06:20

God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

Jesus' reply, "Uh... OK dad... Uh... do I have any say in this great adventure of yours?"

God, "Sure. Do you want to be hung by the neck until dead, drawn & quartered, skinned alive, or nailed to a cross?"

Jesus,

"... Uh... what is that cross thing?"

1

white_swan53

n/a, New Mexico

#3

Jun 02, 2012 @ 00:25:02

Just look at the dudes track record .
He invents humans ,gives then a free will, makes that oh so wonderful garden , then damned if he don't let that snake in there to screw it all up big time.
Later he has his right hand man go down to get that little Jewish virgin pregnant, then makes her hubby lie about being the kids dad , makes him take care and raise the kid. Then makes the kid pay with his life for everyone else's screw ups.
Hell, now days we call that sort of a guy a pot stirring trouble making bum.

0

townie_guy

Deleted

, United Kingdom

#4

Jun 02, 2012 @ 00:27:05

Maybe death to a superior being is something else. They knew what was after death. We don't that's why we fear it instead of accepting it as being natural.

0

syco

Deleted

Somewhere, United Kingdom

#5

Jun 02, 2012 @ 00:47:06

I think the problem is that any form of incest is banned under Leviticus 17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.

21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childles

yet Adam and eve are the onle people god created, so isnt the fact that the human race is now 7million strong mean that somwhere along the lines, adam +eves kids were incestues, and their offspring all well, unclean or whatever the bible says about that sort of thing.

1

townie_guy

Deleted

, United Kingdom

#6

Jun 02, 2012 @ 00:47:21

@GreatestIam2 Said

God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_fjBkwxc&feature=related

I think that the notion that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty perpetrator is immoral. Be it a willing sacrifice as some believe with Jesus or unwilling victim.

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

I agree with scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own righteousness as well as our own iniquity and that God cannot be bribed by sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

I believe as I do because I believe that the first rule of morality is harm/care of children.

https://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

Do you agree that the notion of substitutionary atonement is immoral and that God’s first principle of morality is hare/harm and that this would prevent him from demanding the death of his son?

Regards
DL

No I disagree. We are applying our own values to a higher being. He has no one to answer to. What does he owe us? As for the death of his son, well it was god who created death in the first place. Death here is just a way of getting Jesus off our crappy planet back into the kingdom of heaven. Seriously violation of human rights does not apply to god. He created the universe and life and death. If your that bothered that human rights have been violated sue him. He will just click his finger and create money. To him it has no value. It is only us that value life and fear death. He knows the big punch line when we die. He created it. Seriously we are just puppets in comparison to a god.

0

townie_guy

Deleted

, United Kingdom

#7

Jun 02, 2012 @ 00:49:11

@syco Said

I think the problem is that any form of incest is banned under Leviticus 17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

18 And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

19 And thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister, nor of thy father's sister: for he uncovereth his near kin: they shall bear their iniquity.

20 And if a man shall lie with his uncle's wife, he hath uncovered his uncle's nakedness: they shall bear their sin; they shall die childless.

21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childles

yet Adam and eve are the onle people god created, so isnt the fact that the human race is now 7million strong mean that somwhere along the lines, adam +eves kids were incestues, and their offspring all well, unclean or whatever the bible says about that sort of thing.

I actually thought they were the first. Not the only. Might google genesis and have a look.

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#8

Jun 02, 2012 @ 01:07:05

In the beginning things like incest didn't matter.

Science didn't apply back in those days.

So, a few hundred or a few thousand years of incest were no big deal. Then the whole Noah and the global flood thing happened, so we had another thousand years or so of incest.

But, god had his protective hand on everything back then (unlike today)... otherwise we would all look like this....

Uploaded at ImageFra.me

1

townie_guy

Deleted

, United Kingdom

#9

Jun 02, 2012 @ 01:12:46

Chaski you are my hero for that. Incest, keeping it in the family.

1

AzUnDeR

Deleted

Pacifica, California

#10

Jun 02, 2012 @ 01:18:25

That incest stuff is about nowadays. People trip out on that stuff. Who doesn't?

0

Willi

northinmind,

#11

Jun 02, 2012 @ 01:18:31

son, i need you to go die, then return as a spirit just to prove it can be done.

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#12

Jun 02, 2012 @ 00:42:47

@AzUnDeR Said

That incest stuff is about nowadays. People trip out on that stuff. Who doesn't?

Hey... I'm not against it... I am all about incest...

Ok... just kidding.

0

AzUnDeR

Deleted

Pacifica, California

#13

Jun 02, 2012 @ 01:07:20

@chaski Said

Hey... I'm not against it... I am all about incest...

Ok... just kidding.

1

ThePainefulTruth

Verum est Deus

Deleted

Peoria, Arizona

#14

Jun 02, 2012 @ 11:13:52

@GreatestIam2 Said

God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_fjBkwxc&feature=related

I think that the notion that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty perpetrator is immoral. Be it a willing sacrifice as some believe with Jesus or unwilling victim.

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

I agree with scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own righteousness as well as our own iniquity and that God cannot be bribed by sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

I believe as I do because I believe that the first rule of morality is harm/care of children.

https://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

Do you agree that the notion of substitutionary atonement is immoral and that God’s first principle of morality is hare/harm and that this would prevent him from demanding the death of his son?

Regards
DL

Excellent post. The only problem is the initial assumption that we were condemned by God. We weren't condemned, we were blessed with free will. It's up to each individual what we do with it.

Jesus and John the Baptist were partners who advocated for repentance as the only path to salvation. Jesus, a Jew, didn't make a human sacrifice of himself, which would be blasphemy. It was Paul's idea to use pagan ideas to appeal to pagan gentiles. Why did Jesus cry out God's betrayal of him on the cross, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Jesus didn't understand what it takes for God to commit to our free will--His absolute non-interference.

0

Edited: June 02, 2012 @ 11:19

tariki

Deleted

, United Kingdom

#15

Jun 02, 2012 @ 11:23:40

@GreatestIam2 Said

God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqP_fjBkwxc&feature=related

I think that the notion that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty perpetrator is immoral. Be it a willing sacrifice as some believe with Jesus or unwilling victim.

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

I agree with scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own righteousness as well as our own iniquity and that God cannot be bribed by sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

I believe as I do because I believe that the first rule of morality is harm/care of children.

https://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

Do you agree that the notion of substitutionary atonement is immoral and that God’s first principle of morality is hare/harm and that this would prevent him from demanding the death of his son?

Regards
DL

Ultimately much is "ineffable" and what is true is beyond words to adequately express. Orthodox Christian teaching, though, is perfectly clear that the "sacrifice" was of God "himself". There was no substitute. One can either begin to see sense in this - by seeing how all the various Faiths of the world express it in their own unique way - or one can continue to create and express a characterture of it. Though for what purpose I'm unclear.

0

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God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.