God gave us free will?

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#91

Sep 26, 2008 @ 19:20:07

@xzicva Said

What is you definition of a good or wonderful person? Being Good or wonderful is a matter of opinion. I'm sure Bin Laden has thousands who think he is a good man. Serial killers have their fans. Cruel dictators have their loyal groups. So what is good goes only as far as your eyes can see based on your life experiences that give good it's definition.

Common...we are not discussing the anomalies and the freaks of the world.

I believe that most people have a general sense of what "good" means, and what it takes to be a basically "good" person.

I do not think that you can deny that there are people that are kind, honest, compassionate, law abiding, charity giving, friendly, etc. etc....but, who are not Christians and therefore (based on Christian dogma) will go to hell.

Conversely, there are people that are arrogant, judgmental, not especially compassionate, begrudgingly charitable (at best) etc. but as they are Christians, they (based on Christian dogma) will be going to heaven.

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Edited: September 26, 2008 @ 19:23

kentoo

Salmon Arm, Canada

#92

Sep 26, 2008 @ 20:29:01

@jazzsinger Said

Could be the same passage, different interpretation. The jist is the same, wherein the problem lies, differences in interpretions.Can people agree that we all interpret the Bible in different ways?

The passage xzicva was referring to is John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the away, the truth, and the life: no man ccometh unto the Father, but by me.

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hairsplitter

long beach, California

#93

Sep 28, 2008 @ 15:05:00

With free will you do not have to listen to God if you are religious. That is why it is called free will. What you do with that free will makes all the difference in your life. Religious people have this respect that there is a higher power than themselves that can actually judge you on your behavior. So most religious people act good.

Now, if you are a non-believer of God, you still have free will. And again you can do with that free will what you want to do. In this case you have other human beigns to stop you if you behave bad. So again, we have a double edged sword. You can do anything you want but someone will stop you if you go too far off course.

If you live alone, you got it made. But look what happened to Adam, (religious wise) God saw that he was alone and gave him Eve. To me, that tells me that Mankind cannot go at it alone, and if he could, how far 60, 70 ,80, 90, 100 years. You get what I mean.

To me free will is great. I can do whatever I want with it and in my case I choose to use it for the greater good.

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xzicva

Winter Park, Florida

#94

Oct 16, 2008 @ 17:19:31

@kentoo Said

John 6:44 "No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." Is the passage i was refering to and the discussion is about free will

To say no one believes unless God calls them is saying that no one can make you or force you to believe. God is calling to everyone but unless you seriously listen you cannot hear him over how loud the world has gotten. I can type up many reasons for why I believe God exists and the Bible is his word. I could say many things that show that Jesus is who he said he is but to the reader or listener, if they are intent on not believing under any curcumstance they won't.

I'm sure many people do the same on election day. After hearing the debates and hearing both sides, some will still vote democrat or republican just because it's their party the party they've always voted for and nothing the other side has to say is going to change that because "I'm not going to take what the other side has to say seriously."

Its our choice to walk forward into the dark even though there is a cliff we cannot see. Even though there is a voice calling from behind us warning of it. It is our choice and ablility to srugg off those sent to grab hold of us to make sure we know about the cliff we walk toward. And it is our choice to believe that voice and the one sent to warn us or not. And it is a consequence we must ultimatly face when finally one foot steps off of that cliff.

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kentoo

Salmon Arm, Canada

#95

Oct 16, 2008 @ 17:32:02

@xzicva Said

To say no one believes unless God calls them is saying that no one can make you or force you to believe.

That is not what Jesus said nor is it what I said . The post is about free will and the referecence is to free will not belief.

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xzicva

Winter Park, Florida

#96

Oct 16, 2008 @ 17:40:51

@chaski Said

Common...we are not discussing the anomalies and the freaks of the world.

I believe that most people have a general sense of what "good" means, and what it takes to be a basically "good" person.

I do not think that you can deny that there are people that are kind, honest, compassionate, law abiding, charity giving, friendly, etc. etc....but, who are not Christians and therefore (based on Christian dogma) will go to hell.

Conversely, there are people that are arrogant, judgmental, not especially compassionate, begrudgingly charitable (at best) etc. but as they are Christians, they (based on Christian dogma) will be going to heaven.

But all the same, just because the majority of the world holds those attibutes as good qualities that make a person good does not prove anything. What makes them good qualities? Years ago slavery was seen as what was right. It was wrong for a woman to want to vote. Laws at one point where based on race. Granted that honesty and compassion have stood the test of time but for how long. things get thrown out with every passing generation. It all comes down to the majority mindset and what that majority wants to be able to get away with.

Maybe one day revenge will be leagal if it can be proven that the victim did something bad enough to bring whatever was done to them on themselves. Maybe we will let rapist go if it can be proven that the woman was flounting herself all over the place and was dress like she wanted it. Who knows what will pass for what is good years from now as I am sure the slave owners back at the birth of this nation never thought slavery would ever end. So my question still stands: if there is no God then where does this basic right and wrong come from and what give anyone else the right to impose it?

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xzicva

Winter Park, Florida

#97

Oct 16, 2008 @ 18:02:33

@kentoo Said

That is not what Jesus said nor is it what I said . The post is about free will and the referecence is to free will not belief.

That is what I'm saying. We have the will to do what ever it is that we wish. We can chose to do or not do act or not act, but there will be consequences. Just like here in the U.S. we have our freedom but we have laws as well. No one's looking over our shoulders 24/7 making sure we don't break those laws, we can. But the consequence can range from a few days in county lock-up to life in prison to the death penalty. Even with the knowledge of those consequences people still break the law. God is not going to stand over us and force us to obey we are not robots. He may do things to chastise us for doing wrong as a parent does a child but ultimately it is for our own good. He may do things to stir us in a certain direction but again it is for our own good. We still have the ability to stay suborn and refuse to do it his way or anyone else's way. Why do you think we have so many repeat criminals? They refuse to conform and some throughout there lives it becomes all they know. Others do it just because they can, they enjoy the rush.

My point is, if you chose to stay in bed and not go to work that's you choice free will in progress. God won't force you to get up your boss depending on your job won't come to your house, you can stay and sleep the whole day if you chose. But the consequence is you may loose your job. It's all about checks and balances.

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kentoo

Salmon Arm, Canada

#98

Oct 16, 2008 @ 20:03:04

@xzicva Said

That is what I'm saying. We have the will to do what ever it is that we wish. We can chose to do or not do act or not act, but there will be consequences. Just like here in the U.S. we have our freedom but we have laws as well. No one's looking over our shoulders 24/7 making sure we don't break those laws, we can. But the consequence can range from a few days in county lock-up to life in prison to the death penalty. Even with the knowledge of those consequences people still break the law. God is not going to stand over us and force us to obey we are not robots. He may do things to chastise us for doing wrong as a parent does a child but ultimately it is for our own good. He may do things to stir us in a certain direction but again it is for our own good. We still have the ability to stay suborn and refuse to do it his way or anyone else's way. Why do you think we have so many repeat criminals? They refuse to conform and some throughout there lives it becomes all they know. Others do it just because they can, they enjoy the rush.

My point is, if you chose to stay in bed and not go to work that's you choice free will in progress. God won't force you to get up your boss depending on your job won't come to your house, you can stay and sleep the whole day if you chose. But the consequence is you may loose your job. It's all about checks and balances.

My point is that from what Jesus said ,I discern that we do not have the free will to go to him unless the father calls....as it says in John 6:44. Basically our free will does not exist if it goes against Gods

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Edited: October 16, 2008 @ 20:05

xzicva

Winter Park, Florida

#99

Oct 20, 2008 @ 15:54:46

@kentoo Said

My point is that from what Jesus said ,I discern that we do not have the free will to go to him unless the father calls....as it says in John 6:44. Basically our free will does not exist if it goes against Gods

That is to let us as Christian understand that we cannot force anyone to believe. Some feel as though they did not say enough others feel as though they can trick people into believing and some wish to bring people to Christ for their own self serving glory, and spotlight. Basically Jesus wants us to know that it is up to us only to spread the word. God is calling to everyone it is still our free will to listen or to ignore and he is saying that unless we choose to listen for him we cannot come. He called to you and me from the day of our conception. That may sound funny to you but it is true.

But really I could talk all day about the true meaning behind things that are said in the Bible, but unless the listener or the reader is truly trying to understand and hear God and not just trying to disprove the Bible and/or the existence of God they cannot and will not receive him all still the individuals choice.

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allurasmom

Lexington, Kentucky

#100

Oct 22, 2008 @ 01:09:49

I am going to tackle the orignal post without reading the other 100. My take: God gave us free will. I see it like this...

Here on Earth there are laws. Every nation, every culture has rules that govern it. We have a choice to follow the rules and live a peaceful life or we can choose to break the laws. Choosing to break the law of course leads to consequences that we are well aware of even if we dont care about them when we are breaking them.

Same deal with God. He created laws to govern us so that we may live a peaceful life here on Earth. We all know history has shown that in cultures were laws were lax or nonexistant that chaos reigned, the strong preyed on the week and life was not pleasant. (Some may argue this is still the case but let not go there). So whether you like them or not rules and laws serve a greater purpose its just whether you choose to acknowledge that purpose or not.

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kentoo

Salmon Arm, Canada

#101

Oct 22, 2008 @ 21:05:45

@xzicva Said

That is to let us as Christian understand that we cannot force anyone to believe. Some feel as though they did not say enough others feel as though they can trick people into believing and some wish to bring people to Christ for their own self serving glory, and spotlight. Basically Jesus wants us to know that it is up to us only to spread the word. God is calling to everyone it is still our free will to listen or to ignore and he is saying that unless we choose to listen for him we cannot come. He called to you and me from the day of our conception. That may sound funny to you but it is true.

But really I could talk all day about the true meaning behind things that are said in the Bible, but unless the listener or the reader is truly trying to understand and hear God and not just trying to disprove the Bible and/or the existence of God they cannot and will not receive him all still the individuals choice.

I will agree that the bible must be viewed without the cloud of bias against or for what truth is. It is hard for a Christian to put aside their bias I know... because they must disregard their faith

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