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God gave us free will?

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bogie On June 27, 2009




,
#1New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 12:49:29
in response to discussions about the attrocities that have been committed throughout history "in the name of god", crusades, inquisition, salem witch trials, etc., christians often say that god gave humans free will i suppose as an alibi that it's not god's fault since man has this god given freedom of mind to do his dastardly deeds without influence from the all mighty. but then when the talk moves to discussing belief in god and consequences, this same "jealous" god expects us not to use this free will but to believe in him or else. won't go over the or else part, that seems to be an area of confusion in itself, but it does bring up the question of where did a christian's free will go? the choice to dwell in heaven or burn in hell for etenity is hardly free will. only two choices? jeez.

i feel i have free will only because my mind is free to explore the many alternatives to gods and an afterlife. my mind is capable of studying theories such as evolution and the big bang without bias just as i studied the bible when i was a presbyterian. so is it not the case that in reality, if you believe in god you have actually been robbed of much of your free will?
chaski On May 15, 2021
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#2New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 14:21:09
During the holocaust in one of the concentration camps some rabbis got together and put god on trial for failing to do his ?job? in protecting his own chosen people.

They found god guilty.

Then they went back to their worship of him.
bogie On June 27, 2009




,
#3New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 14:32:17
@chaski Said
During the holocaust in one of the concentration camps some rabbis got together and put god on trial for failing to do his ?job? in protecting his own chosen people.

They found god guilty.

Then they went back to their worship of him.


go figure.
duploshoes On March 03, 2009

Deleted



Leicester, United Kingdom
#4New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 15:16:22
I concur.
I've heard so many Christians bleat on about the free will they have and then can only display how confined they are. (I didn't need to say "bleat" did I?)
kentoo On October 26, 2010




Salmon Arm, Canada
#5New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 17:02:01
I feel that I have free will because I chose where I place my attention, be it on a thought or the space in between.
cGobla On March 15, 2018




Polcenigo, Italy
#6New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 17:04:24
So if you have free will then what's the deal with God's plan?
chaski On May 15, 2021
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#7New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 17:06:21
in the scheme of an infinite god, here is "free will":

You can do whatever you want to do today.

BUT, if it is not what I am telling you to do, then at the end of the day I am going to pour gas all over you and put a burning match to you.
cGobla On March 15, 2018




Polcenigo, Italy
#8New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 17:09:12
yeah this is why I stopped believing in god. I think it is the biggest contradiction in Christianity. How can anyone have free will if everything is planned out by god?
kentoo On October 26, 2010




Salmon Arm, Canada
#9New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 17:14:59
@chaski Said
in the scheme of an infinite god, here is "free will":

You can do whatever you want to do today.

BUT, if it is not what I am telling you to do, then at the end of the day I am going to pour gas all over you and put a burning match to you.

Even taking god out of the equation we may have the free will to jump from a plane with no parachute but must pay the consequences which. by the way I would take the free fall before the fire ball.

Free will does not make us immune to the law of cause and effect.
chaski On May 15, 2021
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#10New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 17:19:49
@kentoo Said
Even taking god out of the equation we may have the free will to jump from a plane with no parachute but must pay the consequences which. by the way I would take the free fall before the fire ball.

Free will does not make us immune to the law of cause and effect.



Ok...but with christian free will you could be a wonderful person (not jumping out of the plane so not deserving of the splatter at the bottom) and still get fried.
duploshoes On March 03, 2009

Deleted



Leicester, United Kingdom
#11New Post! Sep 18, 2008 @ 17:56:48
Mmmm, Free will must also cover "free thinking will". That's where Christians are limited.
bogie On June 27, 2009




,
#12New Post! Sep 19, 2008 @ 11:58:07
@kentoo Said
Even taking god out of the equation we may have the free will to jump from a plane with no parachute but must pay the consequences which. by the way I would take the free fall before the fire ball.

Free will does not make us immune to the law of cause and effect.


true but god IS in the equation as far as christianity goes. that's the main point of the thread. seems christians have been deprived of their free will to me. believe in god or else.

sirkewl On July 25, 2009




None of your business, Canada
#13New Post! Sep 19, 2008 @ 17:03:29
@bogie Said
in response to discussions about the attrocities that have been committed throughout history "in the name of god", crusades, inquisition, salem witch trials, etc., christians often say that god gave humans free will i suppose as an alibi that it's not god's fault since man has this god given freedom of mind to do his dastardly deeds without influence from the all mighty. but then when the talk moves to discussing belief in god and consequences, this same "jealous" god expects us not to use this free will but to believe in him or else. won't go over the or else part, that seems to be an area of confusion in itself, but it does bring up the question of where did a christian's free will go? the choice to dwell in heaven or burn in hell for etenity is hardly free will. only two choices? jeez.


Submitting yourself to God doesn't mean you don't think things out on your own, make plans and goals. It means to get a Job Promotion, you don't stab someone in the back. It means you can have sex, but you wait until you are married. It means you can drink beer, but be responsible about it. It means you can do anything you want, but you don't do something dishonest and anti-social to achieve it.

As a Christian, I use my free will to make decisions about my life (doing my part of going out), and let God mold my character so I do it properly. You don't become an automoton when you live for God, you become a thoughtful person.

On the heaven or hell thing. Heaven is God's home. He lives there. So if someone was always bad mouthing him outside his home, do you expect him to invite you to his home?

Would you invite someone who disrespected you into your home? If not, then why don't you think God doesn't invite a great deal of people into his home! But you don't believe in him, so why worry. Enjoy your life, relax, and smile. You only have one life to live, so enjoy it.

@bogie Said

i feel i have free will only because my mind is free to explore the many alternatives to gods and an afterlife. my mind is capable of studying theories such as evolution and the big bang without bias just as i studied the bible when i was a presbyterian. so is it not the case that in reality, if you believe in god you have actually been robbed of much of your free will?


Religion does steal lots of free will of humanity, but not belief in God.

Remember, I was an atheist, who read the Bible and I saw the connection between how the Bible says we are made to take care of nature (because God made us to till the ground of the garden), and the fact we are the only lifeform who can take care of the planet. So I used my free choice to decide that I believe in God, but before my free choice was not to believe in God. Does that mean I have lost a free choice. Free choice is about, making decisions. Once you make a decision, and it works for you, why change? If it allows you to grow in your humanity, just continue on with that choice. But at the same time, don't just stop there, learn more and more, round out your spiritual life more and more so you can grow and grow out of the person you think you are, into what you are truly capable of.
skottie On September 23, 2009

Deleted



, Texas
#14New Post! Sep 19, 2008 @ 17:11:20
@sirkewl Said
Submitting yourself to God doesn't mean you don't think things out on your own, make plans and goals. It means to get a Job Promotion, you don't stab someone in the back. It means you can have sex, but you wait until you are married. It means you can drink beer, but be responsible about it. It means you can do anything you want, but you don't do something dishonest and anti-social to achieve it.

As a Christian, I use my free will to make decisions about my life (doing my part of going out), and let God mold my character so I do it properly. You don't become an automoton when you live for God, you become a thoughtful person.

On the heaven or hell thing. Heaven is God's home. He lives there. So if someone was always bad mouthing him outside his home, do you expect him to invite you to his home?

Would you invite someone who disrespected you into your home? If not, then why don't you think God doesn't invite a great deal of people into his home! But you don't believe in him, so why worry. Enjoy your life, relax, and smile. You only have one life to live, so enjoy it.



Religion does steal lots of free will of humanity, but not belief in God.

Remember, I was an atheist, who read the Bible and I saw the connection between how the Bible says we are made to take care of nature (because God made us to till the ground of the garden), and the fact we are the only lifeform who can take care of the planet. So I used my free choice to decide that I believe in God, but before my free choice was not to believe in God. Does that mean I have lost a free choice. Free choice is about, making decisions. Once you make a decision, and it works for you, why change? If it allows you to grow in your humanity, just continue on with that choice. But at the same time, don't just stop there, learn more and more, round out your spiritual life more and more so you can grow and grow out of the person you think you are, into what you are truly capable of.



ok, so you are driving down the road and your tier blows. your car flips over and you are killed in the accident....... so, it was your 'choice' to drive the car at that time and not gods plan to 'off' you?
sirkewl On July 25, 2009




None of your business, Canada
#15New Post! Sep 19, 2008 @ 17:15:37
@skottie Said
ok, so you are driving down the road and your tier blows. your car flips over and you are killed in the accident....... so, it was your 'choice' to drive the car at that time and not gods plan to 'off' you?


That is the most insane response I have ever read.

It's called chaos theory. Stuff happens, not because God made it happen. God doesn't make much happen. He gives us free choice to live our lives. God doesnt plan every single detail of everything we do. Anybody who says otherwise is a liar. He lives outside of time and space (which is why there are debates on if he exists or not), and as a result, he sees all things that will happen, but doesn't plan them to happen that way.

So I would say, you choose to drive your car at the time you would get into an accident and die.
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