Freedom Isn't Free

Continuing from the previous forum. "The Crucifixion" I'm starting this forum thanks to caudix's suggestion.

"Freedom isn't free." Anyone ever hear that before. My thoughts of freedom is there are three corner stones to absoloute freedom.

1). Freedom of expression.

2). Free will.

3). Freedom of mind.

Now I'm know what your thinking, freedom of mind and will are the same. You couldn't be more closer. Who thinks that freedom isn't free and its up to the person to sacrifice things to get it. From the previous topic, atheist find freedom of mind by denying the powers and forces of god.

What are your thoughts on freedom of mind.

Freedom isn't free because of human nature. People naturally seek power and domination and, since some people are much better at this than others, freedoms get stepped on in the process.

Maintaining freedom in the face of pride and greed requires a price to be paid, whether it's bloodshed or the giving up of other freedoms.

True and not true. Your right freedom is one of the hardest prize to have. Absoloute freedom isn't worth it sometimes and the world will never have that, but some people can. Bloodshed will happen, it was bound to happen.

We will never be free as long as money is the main factor of life.

Sorry I forgot to add the fourth corner stone, freedom from material things. Now thats hard to do. Now just cause your rich doesn't mean your bound by them, it just means you have a lot of money. But that really doens't say anything about greed.

So do I, but I sometimes find freedom a prize that sometimes isn't worth it.

Not yet..

At one point or another, we all become slaves of our own freedom.

Freedom of expression - in speech we are being gagged tighter and tighter, but even taking this freedom to its unbounded limit, can we still have freedom of expression in speech as long as we are constrained by the limitations of language. In artistic expression, again there is constraint in the materials that we use e.g. you can't sing an aria in paint!

Freedom of will - you would have to be incredibly amoral and lucky to exercise this to its full, and even then you couldn't will yourself to fly. Mechanically, we don;t have the ability.

Freedom of mind has always seemed to me to have the least constraint. It is possible for us to imagine things that don't exist. However, those things we can imagine are themselves sytheses of things we already know. There is also the concept of brainwashing. Is this actual taking over of someone's freedom of mind, or more to do with a person's choice based on what s/he believes?

Freedom from material things is one of the bases of many religions and philosophies as material things are usually seen as substitution for something missing, generally spiritual or interpersonal.

I realise (avoiding the "k" word) that I am not free, but I am an atheist and I do believe that I have more freedom without religion. Being atheist, I like to think I live in a world where people are people and not defined by their religion, and I have no reason to make anyone else become something they don't want to be. I really do believe I am more ethical because I do not wish to interfere in other people's lives or beliefs. And my ethics are founded in philosophy before religion.

As I have said in my own forum on free will, 'freedom' is an ambiguous concept which only has a personal, human meaning, and no logical base; another example of such a concept is 'ownership', or 'society'. However, its human meaning has very real significance in terms of morality - it is immoral to restrict someone's freedom to the extent that net suffering is caused.

Not to be insulting you gentleman but these are concepts I probably had down long, long ago. Freedom is free, the price to get it, is not. Sadly, there is no freedom because no one has been willing to give up enough to get it. More and more limits have been put on freedom so what defines freedom? I came up what all that on my on I hope it sounds sort of wise it does to me.