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Free Will - and the Choice for God

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grace On January 18, 2010

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#1New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 21:55:13
Just asking serious question.

Given that the divine wills for us what is the best for us, that which we would truly wish for ourselves, is it coherent to argue that a human being would ever, FULLY INFORMED, reject the divine?
Golum1970 On August 21, 2010




, United Kingdom
#2New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:00:12
PFfff
sheepy On March 23, 2010

Deleted



Treasure Island, United Kingdo
#3New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:01:03
Hmmm I think I can see where you are coming from. So would this imply proof perhaps of the non-existance of the devine?
Meaning that the fact devine would will what is best for the person, it could not concievably will us to reject itself, therefore the fact a person can reject...shows there cannot be anything there to begin with?
grace On January 18, 2010

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#4New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:02:42
@Golum1970 Said

PFfff



I making no argument one way or the other for the existence of God.

Just concerned about the logic involved.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#5New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:05:30
@grace Said

Just asking serious question.

Given that the divine wills for us what is the best for us, that which we would truly wish for ourselves, is it coherent to argue that a human being would ever, FULLY INFORMED, reject the divine?



define fully informed please.
ssnot_me On February 01, 2016




big D, Texas
#6New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:09:04
@grace Said

Given that the divine wills for us what is the best for us, that which we would truly wish for ourselves, is it coherent to argue that a human being would ever, FULLY INFORMED, reject the divine?


people are "fully informed" that smoking is not good for you, but they still do it.

so to put it another way, yes your 'divine' would still be rejected.
aquine On May 30, 2014
Psalm 2 = Rev 11:15


Banned



Alice SPrings, Australia
#7New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:40:38
@grace Said

Just asking serious question.

Given that the divine wills for us what is the best for us, that which we would truly wish for ourselves, is it coherent to argue that a human being would ever, FULLY INFORMED, reject the divine?



@ssnot_me Said

people are "fully informed" that smoking is not good for you, but they still do it.

so to put it another way, yes your 'divine' would still be rejected.

That is correct.

You see Grace, all the namby pamby, new age, many paths rhetoric fails to account for one thing.

SIN.

Your acceptance of the enemy is the reason that you are continually losing the war.


God bless you.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#8New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:46:23
@aquine Said

That is correct.

You see Grace, all the namby pamby, new age, many paths rhetoric fails to account for one thing.

SIN.

.



so
i
noticed
buffalobill90 On July 12, 2013
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Viaticum, United Kingdom
#9New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:47:05
@grace Said

Just asking serious question.

Given that the divine wills for us what is the best for us, that which we would truly wish for ourselves, is it coherent to argue that a human being would ever, FULLY INFORMED, reject the divine?



If that was the case, then I suppose no rational person would reject the divine if they fully appreciated that it willed what is best for them.

Most religious traditions, however, seem to assert that the divine does not always will what is best for us. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all maintain that certain people receive eternal spiritual punishment for transgression of sacred laws - I fail to see how Hell can be good for anyone, and yet it is willed by the divine.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#10New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:52:38
kinda like mankind willed things.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#11New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:54:16
whos god by the way?
ssnot_me On February 01, 2016




big D, Texas
#12New Post! Jan 04, 2010 @ 22:56:49
@aquine Said

Your acceptance of the enemy is the reason that you are continually losing the war.


God bless you.


not everyone is at war. only those that choose to go out and look for a fight. or the ones causing the fight, are the ones trying to for control those around them
aquine On May 30, 2014
Psalm 2 = Rev 11:15


Banned



Alice SPrings, Australia
#13New Post! Jan 05, 2010 @ 03:07:25
@buffalobill90 Said

If that was the case, then I suppose no rational person would reject the divine if they fully appreciated that it willed what is best for them.

Most religious traditions, however, seem to assert that the divine does not always will what is best for us. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all maintain that certain people receive eternal spiritual punishment for transgression of sacred laws - I fail to see how Hell can be good for anyone, and yet it is willed by the divine.

Could you please endeavour to miss the point of Christ's Atonement just a little bit more.

Wake up buddy.


God bless you.
aquine On May 30, 2014
Psalm 2 = Rev 11:15


Banned



Alice SPrings, Australia
#14New Post! Jan 05, 2010 @ 03:13:49
@ssnot_me Said

not everyone is at war. only those that choose to go out and look for a fight. or the ones causing the fight, are the ones trying to for control those around them

The only humans who are not at war are the humans who accept the one who has already won the war - the Lord Jesus Christ.

The others remain struggling until they accept the Saviour.

Romans 5
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned? 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


God bless you.
JR_Sanford On August 02, 2017




Portland (St. Johns), Oregon
#15New Post! Jan 05, 2010 @ 03:21:03
@grace Said

Just asking serious question.

Given that the divine wills for us what is the best for us, that which we would truly wish for ourselves, is it coherent to argue that a human being would ever, FULLY INFORMED, reject the divine?


Yes, choice was given to Humans. So, you have free will to choose whatever you want to (or not) believe in.

For instance... I'm very Spiritual and believe in a Higher Power. Now that Higher Power isn't a single entity reining over us all. I also don't believe that there is a Heaven or Hell. Unless of course you don't mean a state of being like Nirvana... that could be construed as being "Heaven", but there is NO place or destination to, that is Heaven. Surly there isn't a Hell either. My belief is that "God" is all things. That would include Hell too. So, it seems ludicrous to imagine that "God" would condemn any part of Itself to such a dreadful place as Hell.

Anyway, I have the free will to believe whatever I want no matter how weird it may sound to anyone else.

J.R.
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