F___ Ukraine

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

Jan 26, 2022 @ 16:39:22

Overt 10 years ago the Ukraine opted to align with Russia not NATO (and the USA).

Now their mistake has become painfully (to them) apparent.

And now we, the USA, care... the "US and allies discussing deploying more troops to Eastern Europe prior to any Russian invasion of Ukraine".

Bull s***.

We, the USA, need to stay out of this... we don't need another war... we don't need to act like the world's policeman... we need to focus on our economy, etc...

Sorry, but f*** Ukraine... you, Ukraine, made your proverbial bed... now sleep in it.

1

Hawkeye666

Saint Louis, Missouri

#2

Jan 26, 2022 @ 16:56:05

since vietnam with kennedy, that more to get more involve foreign affair than clean up america's front line. which is america's proverty is more harder to solve than a quick war comes up, that america has get involve.

0

4d4m

4dforum.org,

#3

Jan 27, 2022 @ 19:09:36

@chaski Said

Overt 10 years ago the Ukraine opted to align with Russia not NATO (and the USA).

Now their mistake has become painfully (to them) apparent.

And now we, the USA, care... the "US and allies discussing deploying more troops to Eastern Europe prior to any Russian invasion of Ukraine".

Bull s***.

We, the USA, need to stay out of this... we don't need another war... we don't need to act like the world's policeman... we need to focus on our economy, etc...

Sorry, but f*** Ukraine... you, Ukraine, made your proverbial bed... now sleep in it.

What do you mean Ukraine aligned itself with Russia? I've never heard of this.

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#4

Jan 27, 2022 @ 21:21:43

@4d4m Said

What do you mean Ukraine aligned itself with Russia? I've never heard of this.

Ok, maybe my use of the word "aligned" wasn't accurate.

More accurately Ukraine gave up its USSR arsenal in 1994 in exchange for a promise from Russia and others that its borders would not be violated.

Perhaps this wasn't a fun "alignment" (treaty, or agreement, or... etc..) but the Ukraine clearly, at the time, maintained a closer relationship to Russia than did many of the other eastern european countries and Baltic nations that moved closer to and/or joined the West & NATO.

0

4d4m

4dforum.org,

#5

Jan 28, 2022 @ 07:12:54

@chaski Said

Ok, maybe my use of the word "aligned" wasn't accurate.

More accurately Ukraine gave up its USSR arsenal in 1994 in exchange for a promise from Russia and others that its borders would not be violated.

Perhaps this wasn't a fun "alignment" (treaty, or agreement, or... etc..) but the Ukraine clearly, at the time, maintained a closer relationship to Russia than did many of the other eastern european countries and Baltic nations that moved closer to and/or joined the West & NATO.

I remember that. They also let Russia keep it's naval base in Crimea. Russian annexation of Donbass and the Crimea in 2014 was under the guise of "liberating" Russian speakers. A plebiscite in Crimea showed no support for Russian intervention.

In my opinion Putin is obsessed with the Ukraine

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#6

Jan 29, 2022 @ 02:34:08

@4d4m Said

I remember that. They also let Russia keep it's naval base in Crimea. Russian annexation of Donbass and the Crimea in 2014 was under the guise of "liberating" Russian speakers. A plebiscite in Crimea showed no support for Russian intervention.

In my opinion Putin is obsessed with the Ukraine

Yes... and Russia took advantage by invading Crimea.

And that, IMO, is on Ukraine.

The word "alignment" aside, Ukraine made a bad choice that (I think) they should live with.

The USA needs to stop the we are the world's police and responsible for all wrongs in the world bulls***.

0

4d4m

4dforum.org,

#7

Jan 29, 2022 @ 19:47:53

@chaski Said

Yes... and Russia took advantage by invading Crimea.

And that, IMO, is on Ukraine.

The word "alignment" aside, Ukraine made a bad choice that (I think) they should live with.

The USA needs to stop the we are the world's police and responsible for all wrongs in the world bulls***.

I agree with your opinion on being the World Police. Mostly because it lends to creating an imagery of world domination. It also isn't sustainable.

However, I'll have to take a different stance on the Russia thing. Putin has been appeased by the West for too long. Measures should be taken. How far those measures should go is thankfully not my decision.

Isolationism has it's time and place but had we not abandoned the philosophy most of Europe and the UK would have Deutschland Uber Alles as their anthem.

0

Edited: January 29, 2022 @ 19:48

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#8

Jan 30, 2022 @ 23:32:55

@4d4m Said

Isolationism has it's time and place but had we not abandoned the philosophy most of Europe and the UK would have Deutschland Uber Alles as their anthem.

I don't believe that isolationism is a realistic geo-political position.... ever.

As to Putin... let him have the Ukraine, it will bog down the Russian army for the next 10 or 20 years and is an stupid move economically for Russia to invade.

0

4d4m

4dforum.org,

#9

Jan 31, 2022 @ 19:43:38

@chaski Said

I don't believe that isolationism is a realistic geo-political position.... ever.

As to Putin... let him have the Ukraine, it will bog down the Russian army for the next 10 or 20 years and is an stupid move economically for Russia to invade.

It is a stupid move. Putin seems to think like some medieval warlord. I think any US sanctions will cause Russia to fill the void with the help of China. The sanctions will still hurt. We are gradually heading back to the old Marxism vs the West cold war scenario. It's a shame.

0

Conflict

Alcalá de Henares, Spain

#10

Feb 26, 2022 @ 11:54:03

@chaski Said

Overt 10 years ago the Ukraine opted to align with Russia not NATO (and the USA).

Now their mistake has become painfully (to them) apparent.

And now we, the USA, care... the "US and allies discussing deploying more troops to Eastern Europe prior to any Russian invasion of Ukraine".

Bull s***.

We, the USA, need to stay out of this... we don't need another war... we don't need to act like the world's policeman... we need to focus on our economy, etc...

Sorry, but f*** Ukraine... you, Ukraine, made your proverbial bed... now sleep in it.

Then why is an invasion taking place? Why isn't Russia signing a pact or other kind of agreement with Ukraine?

0

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#11

Feb 26, 2022 @ 17:20:32

@Conflict Said

Then why is an invasion taking place? Why isn't Russia signing a pact or other kind of agreement with Ukraine?

Because Russia want Ukrainian natural gas, oil, strategic minerals.

Just because the Ukraine was more or less aligned with Russia did not mean they were protected from Russian aggression.

Remember when the USSR invaded Czechoslovakia (1968)? At the time Czechoslovakia was essentially aligned with the USSR, still the USSR and other Warsaw Pact nations invaded them.

Being a member of NATO affords protection.

Being "aligned" with Russia (or China for that matter) affords no protection.

At the end of the day, Ukraine made a poor political decision and now they are paying for it.

0

Edited: February 26, 2022 @ 17:23

Leon

San Diego, California

#12

Feb 26, 2022 @ 18:19:32

This is not very accurate.

0

Leon

San Diego, California

#13

Feb 26, 2022 @ 18:27:18

Regardless, the US and NATO should have immediately maxed the sanctioning rather than feed it piecemeal like they are now. They did the right thing in sanctioning the oligarchs and Putin and in cutting off the pipeline, but they should have immediately cut off SWIFT and all financial ties with the rest of the world. Worried about oil prices spiking? Some people see that as a good thing to further incentivize a move away from fossil fuels.

But I knew that wasn’t going to happen. Biden is indeed weak here, but we have always played this kind of thing with caution and Putin knew this. Which isn’t going to work, never has, never will.

Trump? He’s an idiot. And people who lap up what he says are idiots too. Would it have happened under him? Probably. Would he have cared? Probably not. He hates Ukraine after they refused to dig up dirt on Hunter. If anything, the invasion would have been an excuse to burrow further up Putin’s a** and strike a deal to get the Russians to find or fabricate that dirt. And probably end NATO, which he has openly spoken against.

But at this point, it is up to the Ukrainians now if they want to turn this into Afghanistan.

0

Edited: February 26, 2022 @ 18:36

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#14

Feb 26, 2022 @ 19:17:49

@Leon Said

This is not very accurate.

Which part.

@Leon Said

Regardless, the US and NATO should have immediately maxed the sanctioning rather than feed it piecemeal like they are now. They did the right thing in sanctioning the oligarchs and Putin and in cutting off the pipeline, but they should have immediately cut off SWIFT and all financial ties with the rest of the world. Worried about oil prices spiking? Some people see that as a good thing to further incentivize a move away from fossil fuels.

But I knew that wasn’t going to happen. Biden is indeed weak here, but we have always played this kind of thing with caution and Putin knew this. Which isn’t going to work, never has, never will.

Trump? He’s an idiot. And people who lap up what he says are idiots too. Would it have happened under him? Probably. Would he have cared? Probably not. He hates Ukraine after they refused to dig up dirt on Hunter. If anything, the invasion would have been an excuse to burrow further up Putin’s a** and strike a deal to get the Russians to find or fabricate that dirt. And probably end NATO, which he has openly spoken against.

But at this point, it is up to the Ukrainians now if they want to turn this into Afghanistan.

agreed.

0

4d4m

4dforum.org,

#15

Feb 26, 2022 @ 21:23:24

Ukraine gave Russia all the nuclear weapons still in it's country when the Soviet Union broke up. In return Russia promised never to invade Ukraine and NATO promised Ukraine would be accepted into their organization. Ukraine has been trying to become a NATO member for decades but has not been accepted.

1

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