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Racism

Does it matter?

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If a person is accidentally racist, should there still be some consequence for that action?
Yes, always.
Sometimes
Never
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nooneinparticular On September 10, 2019




, Hawaii
#1New Post! Mar 18, 2019 @ 12:13:37
So, I've been watching conversations about racism and sexism through here and other places on the internet and one argument I found interesting is one that says essentially that 'the person didn't mean to be racist or sexist and so should be absolved of backlash'. My question to this defense is 'Does it really matter?' Suppose that you were stretching and accidentally cold clocked someone nearby. Does that person not have the right to be angry at you for doing so, even if it was an accident? Does it negate the fact that you cold clocked them and so no punishment or consequence should result from it?
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#2New Post! Mar 18, 2019 @ 12:23:24
Yes, it matters.

If it's an accident? No..no punishment should result from it. Speaking directly to accidentally hitting someone. What punishment would be appropriate in that situation if the person stretching honestly had no intention of hitting anyone?

What exactly would punishing that person accomplish?

I think the difference, in my eyes, is that if someone doesn't realize he or she is saying something offensive that person should be educated rather than punished. If someone in his heart is not racist and says something that is perceived by others to be racist...educating him is the better option because people should not be punished for not understanding something until they are given a chance to understand it.

Does a person have a right to be angry if someone says something that offends them, regardless of intent? Sure. You have a right to be angry and offended. That does not give you the right to punish someone though.

In raising children, discipline and punishment are two different things. Discipline and education are for children who do not understand when they do something wrong. It allows them the chance to understand and act correctly of their own free will, which is what the end goal should be. Punishment is for children who know they are doing something wrong and do it anyway.

To answer the question...yes there should be consequences, but consequence does not have to mean punishment.
darkman666 On 45 minutes ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#3New Post! Mar 18, 2019 @ 13:29:59
yes, it should matter. actually, it should not only racial comment that you said to a person, it simply rude to cut someone down in public, because they are different than your standards.

society is take most of the blame, I think put a person in a situation that not to be there in first place. man always hate something in the life, but color of their skin should not one of them. doesn't matter, what color of your skin, if you are a*****e? no, it should be your right not to judge a race for one a*****e that in! we do!

in certain situations in life, you can lose your temper and see red, or simply you wish see a group of people to be more mature than they are. you wish they simply grow up. all the race is or not that way, they are decent people that your respect in the race. but with others, trial by error with them.

the bottom line is nobody is perfect, and obviously, no race is perfect, either. how we live with each others. that what matters in life!
chaski On about 2 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#4New Post! Mar 18, 2019 @ 14:50:07
@nooneinparticular Said


Suppose that you were stretching and accidentally cold clocked someone nearby. Does that person not have the right to be angry at you for doing so, even if it was an accident?



Sure, a person has the "right" to be angry at whatever they want to be angry at.

On the other hand, an intelligent and mature person might make the distinction between being angry at being hit vs being angry at the person who did something accidentally.

In your example, certainly most of us don't want to be hit and being hit might result in anger... but once "we" learn that the hitting was an accident, surely we would not be angry at a person who did the hitting accidentally. After all, why were "we" standing so close to someone who was stretching? And why would "we" treat the accident as if it were an intentional assault?

Granted, there are occasions when people are acting unintentionally but very recklessly... that might well deserve some anger towards the reckless person.


As to "accidental racism": What is "accidental racism"?

> Not being racist, but saying something that can be construed by others as racist?

> Being a racist, and publicly saying something that can be construed as racist?

> Something else...?

Cpat92 On September 18, 2019
It's all or nothing





Lauderhill, Florida
#5New Post! Mar 18, 2019 @ 15:13:59
It does and should matter. Whether it is accidental, or not, the one who committed offense needs to be corrected. For example, if I said something sexist to Tiger and I didn't mean to, I'm not learning anything if she doesn't correct me, or if anyone don't correct me for being wrong. It can always lead to worse. I may get away with it multiple times while facing various consequences. One including losing a friend. Though I will have no right in being offended when people turn away from me, I will still catch offense when everyone else has the right to be pissed at me.
gakINGKONG On about 1 hour ago




Angeles City, Philippines
#6New Post! Mar 18, 2019 @ 21:28:06
"If a person is accidentally racist, should there still be some consequence for that action?"

Racism has to be understood before it can be an offense. If the offending person is accused and didn't know that they were at fault, the people involved might want to explain what they see as the problem. The "guilty" person ought to have the right to speak up on his behalf up or down.

If a person is clearly racist, then once that idea and behavior are brought to light, contrition wouldn't be the natural response.

By the way, I can't answer the poll because I don't believe in accidental racism.
DiscordTiger On about 7 hours ago
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#7New Post! Mar 18, 2019 @ 21:48:54
I also don' like the phrase accidental...but going with it anyway.

I think with somethings intent is not as important as impact. Say a fatal car accident, or if you accidental hitter, hit just the right person and blot clot was involved and they died. The impact is way more severe than the "I didn't mean to" intent.

Emotional pain, or offense, is no where near as measurable as physical pain so that is an issue right there, we can't determine how bad racism actually hurts people, if the impact is only emotional not physical.

That being considered, i think it is better to try and educate people that what they are doing is impact other negatively and hope, that once they are aware they will stop doing the thing. You's also hope that after they have been told it is bad and they keep doing it-- it's no longer an "accident" or intentional. They know better.


I like Maya Angelou's approach to things about dealing with other and different people. "When you know better, do better." It has both the component for education - to know better, and the responsibility to stop doing the thing - do better.
nooneinparticular On September 10, 2019




, Hawaii
#8New Post! Mar 19, 2019 @ 11:33:03
@Eaglebauer Said

Yes, it matters.

If it's an accident? No..no punishment should result from it. Speaking directly to accidentally hitting someone. What punishment would be appropriate in that situation if the person stretching honestly had no intention of hitting anyone?

What exactly would punishing that person accomplish?

I think the difference, in my eyes, is that if someone doesn't realize he or she is saying something offensive that person should be educated rather than punished. If someone in his heart is not racist and says something that is perceived by others to be racist...educating him is the better option because people should not be punished for not understanding something until they are given a chance to understand it.

Does a person have a right to be angry if someone says something that offends them, regardless of intent? Sure. You have a right to be angry and offended. That does not give you the right to punish someone though.

In raising children, discipline and punishment are two different things. Discipline and education are for children who do not understand when they do something wrong. It allows them the chance to understand and act correctly of their own free will, which is what the end goal should be. Punishment is for children who know they are doing something wrong and do it anyway.

To answer the question...yes there should be consequences, but consequence does not have to mean punishment.


Is public shaming a punishment? If someone, or a lot of someones, decides to put another on blast for a perceived racist or sexist comment, is that a punishment as defined in this discussion?
nooneinparticular On September 10, 2019




, Hawaii
#9New Post! Mar 19, 2019 @ 11:42:34
@chaski Said

Sure, a person has the "right" to be angry at whatever they want to be angry at.

On the other hand, an intelligent and mature person might make the distinction between being angry at being hit vs being angry at the person who did something accidentally.

In your example, certainly most of us don't want to be hit and being hit might result in anger... but once "we" learn that the hitting was an accident, surely we would not be angry at a person who did the hitting accidentally. After all, why were "we" standing so close to someone who was stretching? And why would "we" treat the accident as if it were an intentional assault?

Granted, there are occasions when people are acting unintentionally but very recklessly... that might well deserve some anger towards the reckless person.


Sure, but the questions 'does someone have the right to be childish', and 'should someone be childish' are two completely separate questions.

Quote:

As to "accidental racism": What is "accidental racism"?

> Not being racist, but saying something that can be construed by others as racist?

> Being a racist, and publicly saying something that can be construed as racist?

> Something else...?



From what I understand, such a defense seems to imply that a person expressed an opinion that others construed as racist without knowledge of the implications.
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#10New Post! Mar 19, 2019 @ 12:06:49
@nooneinparticular Said

Is public shaming a punishment? If someone, or a lot of someones, decides to put another on blast for a perceived racist or sexist comment, is that a punishment as defined in this discussion?



Yes.
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#11New Post! Mar 19, 2019 @ 12:13:14
@DiscordTiger Said

I also don' like the phrase accidental...but going with it anyway.

I think with somethings intent is not as important as impact. Say a fatal car accident, or if you accidental hitter, hit just the right person and blot clot was involved and they died. The impact is way more severe than the "I didn't mean to" intent.

Emotional pain, or offense, is no where near as measurable as physical pain so that is an issue right there, we can't determine how bad racism actually hurts people, if the impact is only emotional not physical.

That being considered, i think it is better to try and educate people that what they are doing is impact other negatively and hope, that once they are aware they will stop doing the thing. You's also hope that after they have been told it is bad and they keep doing it-- it's no longer an "accident" or intentional. They know better.


I like Maya Angelou's approach to things about dealing with other and different people. "When you know better, do better." It has both the component for education - to know better, and the responsibility to stop doing the thing - do better.


I have to disagree. Intent is a huge factor to me. If someone accidentally kills someone I love it will have a huge impact on me and be extremely difficult for me, but in my eyes it would be so much worse and so much harder to bear if I knew that someone killed a loved one intending to do so. One is horribly unfortunate. One is horribly evil. There is a big difference in my opinion.

Angelou's quote I totally agree with, but it illustrates my point well. If you know better, do better. If something is accidental, it can't be predicated on someone knowing better.
nooneinparticular On September 10, 2019




, Hawaii
#12New Post! Mar 19, 2019 @ 12:18:28
@DiscordTiger Said

I also don' like the phrase accidental...but going with it anyway.

I think with somethings intent is not as important as impact. Say a fatal car accident, or if you accidental hitter, hit just the right person and blot clot was involved and they died. The impact is way more severe than the "I didn't mean to" intent.

Emotional pain, or offense, is no where near as measurable as physical pain so that is an issue right there, we can't determine how bad racism actually hurts people, if the impact is only emotional not physical.

That being considered, i think it is better to try and educate people that what they are doing is impact other negatively and hope, that once they are aware they will stop doing the thing. You's also hope that after they have been told it is bad and they keep doing it-- it's no longer an "accident" or intentional. They know better.


I like Maya Angelou's approach to things about dealing with other and different people. "When you know better, do better." It has both the component for education - to know better, and the responsibility to stop doing the thing - do better.



While I personally agree with that sentiment, you'll never get the majority of the public to agree to that way of thinking. As a society of social beings, we judge each other harshly and mercilessly. It may be s***ty, but it's also true. The benefit of the doubt is nice, but in regards to social judgements it has very rarely ever happened. It didn't with the Red Scare, it didn't with the Satanic Panic, and it hasn't happened now either. We as a people rush to judgement. About millennials and younger generations. About minorities. About both the pro and anti PC sides of this very debate. About all the political parties, and the people who support them. We judge each other, and that isn't going to change.
nooneinparticular On September 10, 2019




, Hawaii
#13New Post! Mar 19, 2019 @ 12:54:44
@Eaglebauer Said

Yes.


Okay. Let's take the case of Gucchi. If public outcry is not on the table, how would Guuchi learn that what they did offended people? You think they're going to pay attention to anything other than a public outcry? Or let's take the case of a famous person. Would they address the issue at all if there wasn't a public outcry about any behavior they do? They're already bombarded with tons of judgemental comments everyday. You think they're going to pay attention to any of them if they're lodged low key and individually?
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#14New Post! Mar 19, 2019 @ 14:14:01
@nooneinparticular Said

Okay. Let's take the case of Gucchi. If public outcry is not on the table, how would Guuchi learn that what they did offended people? You think they're going to pay attention to anything other than a public outcry? Or let's take the case of a famous person. Would they address the issue at all if there wasn't a public outcry about any behavior they do? They're already bombarded with tons of judgemental comments everyday. You think they're going to pay attention to any of them if they're lodged low key and individually?


Okay, you got me. You should be very ashamed of your mistakes, even when you don't realize you've made them. Very ashamed. We should all publicly shame you.



Does that sound reasonable? I don't think so.

What you're saying is that people deserve to be punished for things they have not had the chance to understand. Any way you slice it, that is what you are suggesting.

We won't agree on this.
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#15New Post! Mar 19, 2019 @ 14:23:59
@nooneinparticular Said

Okay. Let's take the case of Gucchi. If public outcry is not on the table, how would Guuchi learn that what they did offended people? You think they're going to pay attention to anything other than a public outcry? Or let's take the case of a famous person. Would they address the issue at all if there wasn't a public outcry about any behavior they do? They're already bombarded with tons of judgemental comments everyday. You think they're going to pay attention to any of them if they're lodged low key and individually?



Also, this seems to go in a different direction from what your original post did. According to your original post, you ask if claiming you did not intend to be offensive is a legitimate defense or explanation. That if someone is made to understand they offended someone, saying that they didn't intend or realize their offense, you suggest that they are still subject to backlash after the fact. This is the main thing I disagree with, not being made to understand but that once they make it known they didn't mean to offend, they still deserve to be shamed. And in my opinion, they don't.
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