Does Pakistan have sovereignty in its own country?

Osama bin Laden was killed today in an attack carried out by US Forces in Pakistan during the last 24 hours.

I certainly won't weep for OBL. He was a murderous criminal who is directly responsible for awful atrocities. You don't need me to list any of them.

Early indications coming out, however, suggest that the Pakistani government was not informed by the Pentagon or the White House that this mission had been authorised. Early reports suggest that America took this action unilaterally and without regard to Pakistani sovereignty within its own borders.

It is understood that this is an emotive issue to Americans and they will see the end as justifying the means. Perhaps the US felt it could not trust the Pakistani government, or at least, elements within it. Perhaps there may have been intelligence to suggest that if they discussed the attack with Pakistani authorities beforehand, that the intention to attack could be leaked to Al Qaeda and thus OBL could be spirited away and the operation thwarted.

If this is the case though, it raises all sorts of questions over the legitimacy of the attack and further denigrates America as a nation that acts within international law. It indicates that America is becoming a rogue state that does not respect international law or the boundaries of nations.

Furthermore, it should seriously worry all allies of the US. It should tell us all that America will not respect your boundaries in pursuance of their own aims and ambitions. America will ride roughshod over your territory. They will do what they want, when they want and they will not respect the sovereignty of your country.

America will send in teams of special forces to carry out summary executions of anyone who they see fit to eliminate. This should seriously worry us all.

This situation will be an enormous embarrassment to the Pakistani government and it would nto be at all surprising if the Pakistani public see this as an indication that their government is nothing more than a puppet regime, having its strings pulled from Washington. This will cause much consternation. Public opinion in Pakistan is fragile and radicals already enjoy significant support.

It is understood that the CIA has standing authority from the Pakistani government to operate within Pakistan, but this was not a CIA operation.... early indications are that this action was carried out by US Navy Seals. Now, it could be that the US will say the Seals were "seconded" to the CIA and therefore the action was lawful, but that is a very tenuous interpretation of an agreement which I am sure the Pakistani government did not intend when it was made.

I suspect that there is turmoil in the Pakistani government at this time and in my opinion the most likely outcome will be that a statement will be issued before long to say that the Pakistani government approved the operation in advance.

Whilst this would assuage international opinion and would get President Obama off the hook of any possible accusations of criminal activity, it will certainly have the effect of polarising opinion within Pakistan. It is possible that many moderates could be driven to the radical cause, but more dangerously, it could cause dissent within the Pakistani government. The possibility of smouldering resentment, that could possibly lead to a coup d'etat by more hardline elements in the future would be greatly increased.

Osama bin Laden is dead. That is now a fact. But the long term consequences of this act could have repercussions down the line.

In the meantime, all allies of America need to look very long and hard at what our relationship with America really means. We need to know how safe our borders and our sovereignty are from those we call an ally.


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This thread seems to be nothing but an attempt to inflame Americans. You know nothing of diplomatic relations between Pakistan and America, yet you speculate that America will send their troops into any country without warning.

Exactly. I speculate. This is legitimate in the light of the information starting to emanate on the news.

If you are an expert on American / Pakistani relations yourself, then please feel free to give us the benefit of your superior knowledge and expertise.

I would rather you discussed the issue, than make a lame attempt to shoot the messenger.

In the meantiime, as a citizen of a country that America itself has called "Our unsinkable aircraft carrier", I think concern over this action is entirely legitimate.

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What issue is there to discuss? You claim that the US will invade their allies without warning based on this one event that you know nothing about. And I didn't claim to be an expert, or try to speculate on US foreign policy from a single unique event.

No, I didn't claim that the US will invade their allies without warning. Please don't distort what I said.

I said we need to be aware of the possibility that the US will conduct military operations on our sovereign territory without obtaining authority to do so.

There is a big difference between that and invasion.

But if we do not let our discomfort be known, it will only embolden the US. If we do not make it quite clear that such actions will not be tolerated, it will only make it more likely that they will do so again in the future. The mentality of "Well, we did it in Pakistan, we can do it here, too" could very quickly take hold in the Pentagon.

I'm sorry, please swap 'invade allies' with 'send military forces into allied countries to assassinate anyone they see fit' and then tell me why your post is any better?

You're attempting to shoot the messenger. How sad.

What was carried out in Pakistan, if unauthorised WAS an invasion. It was an invasion by a military force on sovereign national territory, albeit a small one with a specific single objective, it was still an invasion on Pakistani territory.

What a shame you feel that I should be forcibly silenced from speaking. I suppose you will tell me that America fights for freedom and liberty....... as long as nobody says anything that you personally construe as anti-American. This is obviously some form of "Freedom and liberty" that I'm unaware of.

I freely admit I know no more than what is being released on the news today, but that doesn't mean I cannot speculate freely. This is what we do in countries that genuinely believe in freedom of Speech.

If you don't like that, then I think we fundamentally disagree on what freedom really is.

I will speculate freely as I wish and will not be silenced just because you don't like the message.

Your not the messenger, your the instigator.
Where did i tell you you should be silenced? I believe i was just stating my opinion. Really I should take the above post and throw it right back at you, but then again you will just come out with some other s*** instead of actually answering.

Do you have any link to suggest that Pakistan disagree with the American's going in?

Just a note to all this, Pakistani officials have welcomed the capture of Osama Bin Laden.

America does attack any country without warning. Do you know how many cross-border raids it's made into Pakistan over the years without the Pakistani government's consent? And what about that raid a few years ago into Syria that left over ten people dead?

News is breaking all the time, Geoff. I'm watching the BBC News and Sky News, which is where the latest updates are most likely to become quickly available. According to analysts and the "experts" the news agencies are able to get into their studios right now, they are tending towards the opinion that Pakistan didn't know, weren't consulted and (according to one) would have been unlikely to give their support to the mission.

This is all speculation and I did make that very point in my initial post.

You claim to be a student of politics. What is your take on the possible political situation in Pakistan right now..? How do you see the wider implications, politically..?

I have to go out now for a while. It will be interesting to see the comments when I get back. Hopefully they will be objective....well, I can live in hope, can't I..? lol.

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Pakistan is a hot bed for terrorists hiding out. Country should be gutted but we unfortunately don't have the resources.

Would you care to share?
Im aware of a number of missile strikes, some disputed, some the US accepted that they had fired across the border. However America had previously warned Pakistan to sort its borders out and stop insurgents crossing so there was a warning.