The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums:
Religion & Philosophy

Does God accept bribes, ransoms, indulgences and sacrifice of Jesus?

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
GreatestIam2 On January 06, 2023




Ottawa, Canada
#1New Post! Sep 04, 2011 @ 02:23:50
Does God accept bribes, ransoms, indulgences and sacrifice of Jesus?

Eze 18 20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49 7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Man has worked hard to try to put in place a system of justice where the guilty pay for their crimes/sin and the innocent go free. This actually seems to follow the scriptures above and if you are doing unto others what you would like done to you, then you will applaud our present legal forms.

God on the other hand, and those theists that want to ride their scapegoat Jesus as a sacrifice for their sins and not step up to their responsibilities, seem to prefer to have the innocent punished and let the guilty walk.

Scripture says that God cannot be bribed and will not accept a ransom of an innocent party to redeem another. Yet that is exactly what God is said to have done when he intentionally had his son murdered. Some call it a sacrifice. God wanting or needing a blood sacrifice also goes completely against scriptures but he and his followers don‘t seem to know that.

The other bribes or ransoms that God seems to accept are indulgences given by the church and were ironically what created the reformation movement and sects that now somehow embrace that immoral notion. Martin Luther must be spinning in his grave. I will grant that that practice is not as widespread as it once was, but to me, the idea that a man can sin against another man, and by just placing a few $$$ in a church strong box without even having to seek forgiveness from his victim, and expect with church guarantee a shorter stay in purgatory, is just too immoral for me.

All these bribes, ransoms and indulgences are for the forgiveness of sins.
His murder or sacrifice of his son is for the same reason and also has the innocent being punished while the guilty go free.

As the great law maker and executor of justice, do you think it moral for God to accept and demand such instead of making the guilty pay and letting the innocent live?

Secular law generally follows the bible’s idea of justice, in many cases, as shown in the verses above. Should secular law reverse itself and follow God’s ideas of justice instead in accepting bribes, ransoms and sacrifices of innocent men?

Regards
DL
aquine On May 30, 2014
Psalm 2 = Rev 11:15


Banned



Alice SPrings, Australia
#2New Post! Sep 04, 2011 @ 02:39:24
@GreatestIam2 Said

Does God accept bribes, ransoms, indulgences and sacrifice of Jesus?

Eze 18 20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psa 49 7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

Man has worked hard to try to put in place a system of justice where the guilty pay for their crimes/sin and the innocent go free. This actually seems to follow the scriptures above and if you are doing unto others what you would like done to you, then you will applaud our present legal forms.

God on the other hand, and those theists that want to ride their scapegoat Jesus as a sacrifice for their sins and not step up to their responsibilities, seem to prefer to have the innocent punished and let the guilty walk.

Scripture says that God cannot be bribed and will not accept a ransom of an innocent party to redeem another. Yet that is exactly what God is said to have done when he intentionally had his son murdered. Some call it a sacrifice. God wanting or needing a blood sacrifice also goes completely against scriptures but he and his followers don‘t seem to know that.

The other bribes or ransoms that God seems to accept are indulgences given by the church and were ironically what created the reformation movement and sects that now somehow embrace that immoral notion. Martin Luther must be spinning in his grave. I will grant that that practice is not as widespread as it once was, but to me, the idea that a man can sin against another man, and by just placing a few $$$ in a church strong box without even having to seek forgiveness from his victim, and expect with church guarantee a shorter stay in purgatory, is just too immoral for me.

All these bribes, ransoms and indulgences are for the forgiveness of sins.
His murder or sacrifice of his son is for the same reason and also has the innocent being punished while the guilty go free.

As the great law maker and executor of justice, do you think it moral for God to accept and demand such instead of making the guilty pay and letting the innocent live?

Secular law generally follows the bible’s idea of justice, in many cases, as shown in the verses above. Should secular law reverse itself and follow God’s ideas of justice instead in accepting bribes, ransoms and sacrifices of innocent men?

Regards
DL

Surely you have greater understanding of atonement than you have exhibited in this post.

Christ's death has made the eternal, everlasting and sufficient atonement for all sin. If we were to somehow apply your mode of justice then every human on earth would be at the very least summonsed to appear before a pre-trial committee, as all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#3New Post! Sep 04, 2011 @ 12:08:52
@aquine Said

Surely you have greater understanding of atonement than you have exhibited in this post.

Christ's death has made the eternal, everlasting and sufficient atonement for all sin. If we were to somehow apply your mode of justice then every human on earth would be at the very least summonsed to appear before a pre-trial committee, as all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god.


No, He doesn't accept bribes, since everything belongs to Him anyway, with what could we brine Him? Similar with indulgences, which are really only bribes to the Priesthood to let things slip by unnoticed, something they have neither the right nor the power to do.

As far as ransoms go, then in a sense He does. In the sanse that like equals like (an eye for an eye). However the only real ransom that has ever interested Him was the ransom price needed to buy humans back out of sin. Again the like for like principle came inot play, and so to ransom man from captivity to Satan and sin, only one thing would match what was lost. It had to be a perfect life, in exchange for a perfect life.

So who could pay that ransom? No-one son or daughter of mankind could because they all inherit sin from Adam and Eve, and therefore are not equivalent to the perfect life that was lost by Adam and Eve.

No it was something that had to be arranged.

Obviously His own son would have been the first to volunteer, but who else could God trust anyway? He had already seen a number of angels turn against Him, led by the one who became known as Satan, but He had worked alongside His son in creating everything, His son being the first of His creations.

So it was decided, His son would have to come down to the earth as a perfect human. However, first His son had to be trained, and so he was given the Nation of Israel to nurture and protect from Satan as far as he could. That gave him a lot of experience of what humans were like, how they suffered, their possible strengths and weaknesses.

However they both knew what he was up against. A powerful spirit creature, who would do all in his power to nullify the ransom by dragging God's own son down from perfection.

Jesus, as the son became had to be allowed to grow up as a perfect human, ignorant of his previous life, and so a strong Godly couple had to be found, and the woman had to be a virgin so no-one could doubt his origin with any real justification. Hence the sons life force was implanted into Mary's womb and the perfect child was conceived.

When he came of age (30 for Jews at that time) he was sent into the wilderness and his old memories were put back into his mind, after he had survived Satan's temptations. It took him a while (40days) to assimilate so many millennia of memories, but he did, and the rest, as they say,is history. The sacrifice was successfully performed with the unwitting aid of Satan's followers, and the ransom paid giving man back the right to perfect human life once again, only to be "repaid" however after God's kingdom was prepared and cleansed of all Satanic influence. This could not be done straight away as God's Justice also meant that Satan had to have sufficient time to try to prove his challenge so everything was, after the first century "put on hold" with the truth only being protected to a limited extent until the time came.

According to prophecy we are now very much in the final stages of that preparation now so soon the earth will be cleansed, the ransom will be applied, and mankind will once again be perfect.
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Be Respectful of Others

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Sat Jun 25, 2011 @ 22:52
56 5814
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Sat Apr 03, 2010 @ 17:34
4 1111
New posts   Religion
Tue Feb 23, 2010 @ 21:54
15 2572
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Tue Feb 02, 2010 @ 16:03
3 1244
New posts   Politics
Fri Feb 10, 2006 @ 08:33
1 556