Do "we" really need NATO?

Does the USA need to be a part of NATO?

Does NATO need for the USA to be part of NATO?

For good/bad the USA left the TPP. The TPP has remained, with leadership shifting to countries like Australia, Canada & Japan... it would seem that the USA isn't needed by its former Pacific rim allies. Bottom line: The Pacific trading partners do not "need" the USA nor its leadership.

For good/bad the USA has left the Paris Accord. The Paris Accord remains and...apparently the "leadership" of the USA is not needed. Europe (in particular Germany & France), India & China seem to be the new "leaders". Bottom line: The world does not need the USA's leadership regarding either climate changer nor the grown of cleaner sources of energy.

Any leadership role of the USA in the Middle East is minimal at best.

China is, it would seem, willing to take the lead in many parts of Africa. Bottom line: Africa doesn't "need" the USA nor its "leadership".

China is the 2nd largest economy in the world and will likely surpass the USA soon. China can easily survive a trade war with the USA. Bottom line: China doesn't need the USA nor want its leadership.

The USA has never really focused on leading in Latin America (short of supporting dictators through the School of the Americas. Bottom line: Latin America doesn't "need" the USA nor its "leadership".

Now Trump has clearly placed his relationship with Putin above NATO. Russia might attack some of its smaller neighbors, but must know that an attack on most of Europe would not be sustainable. Russia has duped Trump and is leading him by a string.

Maybe NATO is just an out of date organization that is a waste of U.S. tax dollars.... maybe "we" should pull out and let Europe take care of Europe.

The leaders of Europe, no doubt, are thinking about this... does Europe and NATO really "need" the USA and its "leadership"?

most likely, if bozo keep acting like a bozo. will force usa to leave nato for the sake of the world. mostly likely,, usa will kick out nato. nato could disband to prevent usa to lead them or take usa's advice on anything in the future.

I'm running this off the top of my head (no time to validate my memory), so some things may be amiss - please correct me if I misspeak:

EU and Japan just agreed on some trade deal (didn't read details yet)
China has long been in sub-Sahara Africa, mining rare Earth metals (which they also have a lot of - these are used extensively in any electronics), and other recent exploits. And I don't think the US really has much going there anyways ... except maybe trying to catch up to China. (we're fighting not-wars in a few northern African countries)

China has also been working on some Eurasian trade deal - I think it's dubbed The New Silk Road (??)

So yes, US influence does seem to be diminishing at a global scale - and I'm not blaming Trump, these things have been slowly growing for years - but Trump certainly isn't helping things.

If the United States leaves NATO, they will have to radically restructure just for the lack of money.

I'm guessing the "they" in your post is the rest of NATO, as the USA would save a lot of money by not having bases and military operations in Europe.

The European NATO nations could decide that...

A. Their present monetary commitment to NATO is sufficient for a new only-Europe NATO... thus no additional cost

Or

B. NATO is not necessary, thus each country could take their NATO funds and commit it to their own country and/or to an EU security programs of some sort.... thus either saving or at least not losing funds.

The reality is that even if the USA left NATO, if Russia invaded any of the primary NATO countries (UK, France, Germany, Turkey, etc.) the USA would provide military support to them (probably even under Trump).

The more fringe NATO countries might be s***-out-of-luck... but is it realistic to think that Putin would try to invade more than one or two of the former USSR states?

It would be complete insanity for Russia to invade all of the old Westpac countries.

Getting rid of NATO could be a huge savings for all.

Trump's methodology of s***ting on diplomacy and insulting our allies aside, the world is not presently at risk from another 19th or 20th century like age of empires world war.

Global terrorism and trade wars are the biggest fears of the 21st Century.... and the ever unstable ME.

PS... aka Reply #2

If "we" do value NATO, then "Thank God We Have" Trump is a complete idiot moron, who is both insulting our allies and putting the West in danger.

In diner-table conversion with older friends and relations who lived through all or at least part of World War II, they say that the allies created NATO to prevent the French and Germans from killing each other.

Your older friends are mistaken.

After WW2 the "allies" (USA, France, UK, etc) and the USSR divided up Europe... in part to avoid a shift in the war from the Allies vs Germany to the Allies vs the USSR.

Europe was divided as a deal to make peace. (Note: Some U.S. generals wanted to take the war to the USSR.)

The USSR (aka communism) got all the Westpac nations and East Germany.

The USA & the Allies (aka democracy) got France, UK, Italy, Greece, Turkey... etc... and West Germany.

The "cold war" ensued.


>>> The NATO alliance gave West Germany a path to forgiveness for the war and the holocaust. <<<

And thus began the rebuilding of Western Civilization (aka Western Europe & the USA)... any many years of fun competition or boycotts at/of the Olympics... Putin, apparently, remembers and longs for those days... to a point.

If we leave NATO, there'll be a lot of extra armed forces from Germany and Italy.

Yes.

And they can be used for "important" things... or "we" can downsize our military/navy and have massive savings.

Don't get me wrong... NATO and our International Military/Navy presence were good to/for me.... I lived in Iceland, Bermuda, England, Japan, Italy (graduated HS there), Germany.... I had a good life as a child and as a professional, thanks to NATO and the US Military/Navy presence overseas...

But, realistically... do "we" need to spend our tax dollars on that now...?

Again, aside from Trump being a dumb-ass... maybe there is a silver lining to this clown... I mean cloud.

Reply part 2: In Naples, Italy there are

> U.S. military/navy forces....U.S. Navy ships ported in Naples.... U.S. operations.

AND

> U.S. military/navy forces assigned to NATO Military Command AFSOUTH.....NATO operations


Two sets of U.S. military/navy assigned to Nepals, Italy.

We could reduce/remove one.... or both... and save U.S. tax dollars.

would anyone in nato attack us, if we voluntarily just decide to leave nato?

No. They aren't that stupid.

I didn't think so.

you did make sense that usa would save money, if we leave nato. would our foreign affairs better in these countries: instead threat them into war, our inference with their wars like we done in the past?

Maybe it is time for the USA to act like a "great" nation and pack away the "war machine"....which doesn't mean giving up security... just step back from the big stick and start talking quietly.