The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums:
Religion & Philosophy

Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh? Most, as well as scriptures, say that it was through Adam, even though Christians sing that Ada

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 · >>
GreatestIam2 0 minutes ago




Ottawa, Canada
#1New Post! Feb 06, 2020 @ 21:32:38
Did sin enter the world through Adam, Satan or Yahweh?

Most, as well as scriptures, say that it was through Adam, even though Christians sing that Adam’s sin was a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh’s plan.

Given the necessity, Adam, from that, may not be the culpable one and his punishment would be unjust.

Satan had already sinned in heaven before being cast into Eden.

It can be truthfully said that she was the first sinner on earth if we ignore Yahweh.

Further, would you say that Eve sinned, given that Satan or the talking serpent deceived her?

That deception would take lies, and that is a sin, and that sin also preceded Adam’s sin.

Many do not see what the serpent says as a lie, which complicates things.

Was the initial sin, regardless of who did it, a happy fault and necessary to god’s plan like Christians sing in their Exultet hymn?

Did Yahweh lie when he told Adam that he would die if he educated himself with the knowledge in the Tree of Knowledge?

Why and how does knowledge kill us?

If it does, should we keep our children as blind to it as Adam and Eve initially were?

The Eden myth can get quite complicated, especially when Christians call it a fall, then say it was necessary so as not to derail Yahweh’s plan.

This last being what the Jews wrote into their myth and which they say is not the Original Sin of the Christian interpretation, but more like the Original virtue that the Jews call it.

The opposite of what Christianity says, if you ignore their happy fault view.

In terms of first sin, I see Yahweh, since sin was necessary to him as the first sinner, followed by Satan, Yahweh’s loyal opposition and teacher of humankind, and then Adam.

Why Eve at the end of Genesis 3 has to then be second class to Adam, --- he shall rule over you, --- would seem like Yahweh punishing the wrong party.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL
darkman666 On about 12 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#2New Post! Feb 06, 2020 @ 22:17:39
this is something, you have wonder between the bible is fantasy like a book of fair tales or completely real.

we know science and religion, that people doesn't believe in dawin's theory. most people does believe, because scientific facts.

since the bible doesn't exactly provides exactly dates in it.

we were told from the bible, adam and eve were together enter paradise.

if Darwin theory, adam came from a cell from the sea and walked of the ocean. did adam spend 20 years in ocean, then adam walked out as a man?

why didn't adam come out a baby or a little boy?

did eve come out of the ocean or a lake as a woman or little girl?

if adam and eve did come out of two different oceans or lakes. how did they meet, and how would they know where go? or why did adam and eve simply keep going on their own, or if they have met ? why would care to know each others?
chaski On 52 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#3New Post! Feb 06, 2020 @ 22:26:08
What is “sin”?

Do any other animals have “sin”?
chaski On 52 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#4New Post! Feb 06, 2020 @ 22:39:25
What was the original “sin”?

> Eve eating the fruit?

> Eve gaining the knowledge of good and evil, and believing it was important to share with Adam?

> The serpent’s “trickery”?

> Creating the serpent knowing that it would “trick” Eve?

> God’s lie to Adam about what would happen if he ate the fruit?

> Creating Adam & Eve so ignorant and gullible that they could be so easily “tricked”?

> Not creating Adam and Eve with an understanding of good and evil in the first place?

> God setting Adam and Eve up for failure and then being so greedy that he kicked them out of the garden?

> God being dumb enough to put the fruit in the garden in the first place?

> Something else?
chaski On 52 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#5New Post! Feb 06, 2020 @ 22:43:04
Side note: Apparently god gave the angels both the knowledge of good & evil and free will long before his little game with Adam and Eve.

Interesting that.
darkman666 On about 12 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#6New Post! Feb 06, 2020 @ 22:51:34
what happen if the angels taught adam and eve good and evil before adam bite the apple, would adam bite apple anyway? would god give at that moment, adam, the freedom of choice?
chaski On 52 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#7New Post! Feb 06, 2020 @ 23:41:18
@darkman666 Said

what happen if the angels taught adam and eve good and evil before adam bite the apple, would adam bite apple anyway?





We know that there was at least one angel who would havre been happy to do that.
mrmhead 2 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#8New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 00:40:28
@GreatestIam2 Said


Further, would you say that Eve sinned, given that Satan or the talking serpent deceived her?

That deception would take lies, and that is a sin, and that sin also preceded Adam’s sin.



A lot of points to question, but let's start here.

Why is it a sin to be deceived?

That's as bad as sending babies to hell that haven't been baptized yet.

Ignorance is a sin?

Edit: BTW, in case you haven't picked up from my other posts, I am in no way a bible scholar or reader or anything. Just a commoner that walked away from Protestant-ism before confirmation and more or less dismissed (but not necessarily hated) religion since.

This is one of the questions that drove me away.
chaski On 52 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#9New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 01:01:52
@mrmhead Said


Why is it a sin to be deceived?




Yes, the original sin thing would make more sense if....

God: Don’t eat that fruit drink booze, smoke and take drugs!

Eve (to Adam): God is a bore and a “ kill joy”, let’s party!

Adam: Hell yeah! Let’s rock... sex and drugs and rock-n-roll!


Then after a night of hard partying at a White Snake concert, Adam wrecked God’s vintage 1967 Ford Shelby Cobra 350GT Mustang..., and to top it off Adam and Eve had unprotected sex... before they were married... no wonder Cain turned out bad...
darkman666 On about 12 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#10New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 01:34:50
@chaski Said



Yes, the original sin thing would make more sense if....

God: Don’t eat that fruit drink booze, smoke and take drugs!

Eve (to Adam): God is a bore and a “ kill joy”, let’s party!

Adam: Hell yeah! Let’s rock... sex and drugs and rock-n-roll!


Then after a night of hard partying at a White Snake concert, Adam wrecked God’s vintage 1967 Ford Shelby Cobra 350GT Mustang..., and to top it off Adam and Eve had unprotected sex... before they were married... no wonder Cain turned out bad...



years ago, I heard john belushi beat out jesus in lead role in " national lampboon's animal house ".
mrmhead 2 minutes ago




NE, Ohio
#11New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 02:16:34
@GreatestIam2 Said
Christians sing that Adam’s sin was a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh’s plan.
''''''

.......
In terms of first sin, I see Yahweh, since sin was necessary to him



So as to Necessary - are you saying that sin is necessary for god to exist?

So god must create sin in order for himself to exist?

That's kind of like a paradox.

I suppose if there is no time ... then cause-and-effect is not necessarily in that order.

chaski On 52 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#12New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 04:54:24
@mrmhead Said

So as to Necessary - are you saying that sin is necessary for god to exist?

So god must create sin in order for himself to exist?

That's kind of like a paradox.

I suppose if there is no time ... then cause-and-effect is not necessarily in that order.




Do other animals have "sin"?

If not, does that mean that they do not have a god?
darkman666 On about 12 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#13New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 06:06:17
if animals only have instincts to relay on to understand what feelings are. a wild animal would have to be taught different right and wrong dealing with moral issues.

so pets would understand moral right and wrong, because the animals will surrounding by humans, but in the wild. in the wild, you have a lion will attack you by instincts, then in society, a lion would be taught not to attack you.

so, I think animals would what understand moral sins, if they are taught what they are. human's instincts had moral sins build in. animal's instincts like moral sins has be taught. moral sins could be taught a mother to a child animal, but does a wild animal understand what is empathy mean like domestic animal does?
GreatestIam2 0 minutes ago




Ottawa, Canada
#14New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:11:21
@darkman666 Said

this is something, you have wonder between the bible is fantasy like a book of fair tales or completely real.

we know science and religion, that people doesn't believe in dawin's theory. most people does believe, because scientific facts.

since the bible doesn't exactly provides exactly dates in it.

we were told from the bible, adam and eve were together enter paradise.

if Darwin theory, adam came from a cell from the sea and walked of the ocean. did adam spend 20 years in ocean, then adam walked out as a man?

why didn't adam come out a baby or a little boy?

did eve come out of the ocean or a lake as a woman or little girl?

if adam and eve did come out of two different oceans or lakes. how did they meet, and how would they know where go? or why did adam and eve simply keep going on their own, or if they have met ? why would care to know each others?


If you try to answer some of my questions, which have a moral content, I will try to speak to yours that do not.

Morals is my focus as there might be an end game and consensus for us.

Speculation is all we can do with your questions and are likely a waste of time.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam2 0 minutes ago




Ottawa, Canada
#15New Post! Feb 07, 2020 @ 21:15:38
@chaski Said

What is “sin”?

Do any other animals have “sin”?


Sin to theology is crime or offence to philosophy.

As an analogy for evolutional behavior that hurts another of the same species, yes, all animals sin or do offence to those they compete against, should they win.

Regards
DL
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 · >>

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Be Respectful of Others

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Fri Aug 01, 2014 @ 19:49
8 516
New posts   Religion & Philosophy
Sun Jan 05, 2014 @ 21:23
60 1946
New posts   Religion
Fri Feb 01, 2013 @ 10:14
1 600
New posts   Jokes & Humor
Thu Nov 01, 2012 @ 04:13
1 496
New posts   Movies
Thu May 07, 2009 @ 04:56
7 356