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Did Abraham kill Isaac and other tales of infanticide in religion

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Darkman666 On about 17 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#166New Post! Dec 09, 2019 @ 18:02:32
since I was a kid, being jewish never really helped me, understand the storyline that one day, sol walking and looked back at his wife. she turned in salt. not that why whether the moral issues or storyline to teach a lesson in the story or fable.

what if sol's wife literally turned into salt, why has never happen in modern times, people literally all sudden burst in flames. never become salt!!

should this be under " ripley's believe it or not " ?
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#167New Post! Dec 10, 2019 @ 04:17:14
I know that you didn't want me to elaborate, but asking for "anything" is an insufficient answer because quite a few mythological stories have basis in fact.

For example Jesus as a person is referenced by Flavius Josephus. Now Josephus does not provide any support of the claim that Jesus is the "son of god". That is, there is "something" that is a basis for the story of Jesus.



True, but Jesus never refers to himself as the son of God anyway, he refers to himself as the Son of Adam ( that is Man in Aramaic).
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#168New Post! Dec 10, 2019 @ 04:20:39
True, but Jesus never refers to himself that way anyway, he refers to himself as the Son of Adam ( Man that is ). Being referred to as the Son of God is added in by others. But yes, we can say definitely he existed and had quite an impact on the world.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#169New Post! Dec 10, 2019 @ 04:24:13
As far as turning into a pillar of salt goes, this might be a metaphor for something else. There is also turning into stone for instance when gazing upon Medusa. Hard to say what that refers to.
chaski On March 28, 2024
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Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#170New Post! Dec 10, 2019 @ 04:48:09
@4d4m Said

True, but Jesus never refers to himself that way anyway, he refers to himself as the Son of Adam ( Man that is ). Being referred to as the Son of God is added in by others. But yes, we can say definitely he existed and had quite an impact on the world.


Yes, but your question wasn’t whether or not I believed it was factual, Your question was about whether or not there was a basis to the stories in the bible?

The answer, as with all myths: Yes.

There was a factual basis for the Iliad (Trojan War)... a real place and real cultures that went to war with each other.

But that does not mean that the Greek gods were real and picked sides in the conflict.

It just mess there was a factual basis for the myth.

Similarly, there is likely some basis for the Hindu myths that are at least as old as the Abraham story... if not older... but such basis does not make them real... they remain myth regardless of there age.
Darkman666 On about 17 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#171New Post! Dec 10, 2019 @ 05:39:14
I was thinking about a star trek's episode, " the enemy within ", when kirk is transport back to the enterprise. somehow, two separate kirks came back few minutes apart. two kirks were running around the enterprise. one kirk was normal and good. and other kirk, which was evil and weakest of the two kirks. bones and spock realizes they couldn't kill the evil kirk. it was the dark side of the real kirk. so, bones and spock had to send both kirks back to the surface of the planet, and then they transport two kirks again, but the real kirk emerge into one on the transport pad.

image what if god send two jesus down to earth in separate parts of the earth. both lives different, one was the son of god, and other was son of devil. this would could explain the second coming of jesus and the term, " anti-Christ ". both of jesus were at the time, instead to separate time of the second jesus in the future.

this anti-Christ live a normal, but evil life until he died. whether or not, he preach evil or the start evil cults. his children created generations of evil like hilter.

what if these two jesus were not son of god and son of the devil, but they were sons of cain and abel? what if cain and abel were the son of god and son of the devil?
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#172New Post! Dec 10, 2019 @ 07:20:25
That's an interesting take on it. The Gnostics believe that God is actually Satan and we all live in hell.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#173New Post! Dec 11, 2019 @ 03:47:24
What if the "good" cult and the "evil" cult where worshiping the same guys without knowing it? The ruling cult could be ruthless, heartless and stone cold and the masses could be all kind and good and completely unable or unwilling to even believe in evil.
If you think about it, the ability to play god has unlimited potential. A group of people with the ability could take over any revolutionary thought, form it into a cult or religion, then set those cults upon each other. Using the other groups as scapegoats while they carry out their own agenda.
chaski On March 28, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#174New Post! Dec 11, 2019 @ 04:34:54
@4d4m Said

What if the "good" cult and the "evil" cult where worshiping the same guys without knowing it?



Then the "guys"(i.e. god or gods) being worshipped are idiots and unable to guide their following, so do not actually deserve to be worshipped at all.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#175New Post! Dec 11, 2019 @ 05:12:43
They don't deserve to be worshiped at all; very true, but that doesn't mean they aren't worshiped and it doesn't mean they are idiots.

Bereshis 11:7

7 Come, let Us go down, and there confuse their sefat, that they may not understand one another’s language.

How do you know they can't guide their following?
chaski On March 28, 2024
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#176New Post! Dec 11, 2019 @ 06:21:30
@4d4m Said

They don't deserve to be worshiped at all; very true, but that doesn't mean they aren't worshiped and it doesn't mean they are idiots.



1st we have to make the leap and assume "they" are in fact real.

Now, if they are real and cannot guide their followers, then YES they are idiots.

@4d4m Said

How do you know they can't guide their following?


I don't believe "they" exist, so I don't "know that they can't guide their followers.

I am basing my statements on your premises, throughout this thread. In this case, I am basing my statement that they can't guide their following on your statement, " What if the "good" cult and the "evil" cult where worshiping the same guys without knowing it? The ruling cult could be ruthless, heartless and stone cold... which is obviously contrary to ...the masses could be all kind and good and completely unable or unwilling to even believe in evil.

That is to say that the followers of the "they" cannot both be right, so it follows that the "they" are not capable of guiding their followers...

Thus the "they" are idiots.


Of course the "they" don't really exist, so the point is moot.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#177New Post! Dec 11, 2019 @ 06:33:39
The idea here is controlling both sides of the equation. Assuming these hypothetical "gods" are real, controlling a small number of people is easier than controlling a large group of people. If the masses can be kept superstitious enough, controlling their religious beliefs/leaders should be enough. To control the leaders of the society obviously royal families would be ideal. These families consist of a limited number of people. Indeed if they themselves could guarantee their part in those families it would help cement their rule.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#178New Post! Dec 11, 2019 @ 06:38:34
A similar idea was used by colonial powers. The genocide in Rwanda of the Tutsis by the Hutus was one result. The Belgian colonists favored the Tutsi people. They were less numerous and so would be more threatened by the Hutus. This would make them fear and be more ruthless toward them to enforce their place in the artificial social order created by the colonists. They were used to help suppress the larger population of Hutus. When the country gained independence it was only a matter of time until the Hutus retaliated against the Tutsis for past grievances.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#179New Post! Dec 11, 2019 @ 06:48:38
Supporting and controlling an oligarchy would consist of getting them to worship "satan" if you will, while the masses would worship "god." The oligarchy would consider themselves superior in their knowledge the sheep were unaware of this arrangement. Much like the caste system each tier of the society;s real function would be to help suppress those below through the use of greed and fear of retribution.
Of course the downside for the oligarchy would be if the gods wanted to destroy them they could do so by influencing the masses through the other control system. Much like the royal families of Europe beholden to the Pope because the people of their nations listened his representatives in the church every Sunday. That and the garrisons of Knights Templars and Knights Hospitalers in each nation would make for an obedient oligarchy. The Shah of Iran found himself in a similar situation.
4d4m On December 23, 2022




4dforum.org,
#180New Post! Dec 14, 2019 @ 09:04:52
If everything works out the way they want it to the worshipers, being oligarchy or members of the masses, believe what they are doing is for a just cause. This takes a lot of subterfuge and is why we see historically tyrants lying to cover their tracks when it doesn't seem they would really have to. Nero was very afraid he would be judged for the destruction of Israel. He put his image in the temple to inspire a revolt, it worked. Then he used the revolt as an excuse to proceed with the destruction. It was an obvious plan, similar to kristallnacht. But what was he worried about? Why bother covering his tracks? He was a king and beholden to none. He was able to accomplish his objective and in the end he would just die and that would be the end of it right?
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