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Did Abraham kill Isaac and other tales of infanticide in religion

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4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#1New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 00:17:36
I read an article recently written by a scholar from New York; here's the link.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/when-abraham-murdered-isaac/
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#2New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 00:24:18
Here's the Jewish text ( from the Tanakh ) about Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son Isaac. The story is Bereis*** 22 ( Genesis 22) Those familiar with the Christian Bible will note the lack of embellishments about how God was simply teaching Abraham a lesson. All that was added by the Romans. The story is simply told in it's original form
This leads to the question; why add the embellishments at all? Why did Roman priests and rulers feel the need to add their own definition to this story? Were they trying to hide something?
Anyway here it is:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/bereis***-genesis-chapter-22
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#3New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 00:53:11
The verse that stands out to me is 17
17 that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

What other Biblical character was told his seed would multiply as the sand is upon the seashore?
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#4New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:00:00
@4d4m Said

why add the embellishments at all? Why did Roman priests and rulers feel the need to add their own definition to this story? Were they trying to hide something?



To assist in developing the underpinnings of controlling the ignorant masses by establishing a set of dogma that promotes blind faith.


Apologies for being overly simplistic, but that is the core of it.
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#5New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:04:01
As you guessed that character's name is Adam who was blessed (or cursed) to multiply like crazy. Remember now, God was pissed off at Adam and Eve for lying about having eaten of the tree of knowledge. And he cursed them. Go forth and multiply until your seed is as numerous as the sand up on the seashore and destroy the Garden of Eden. ( my interpretation there )
Remember that his son Cain killed his son Able because he was jealous of God's acceptance of Able's offering.
Then God curses (or blesses) Cain to live forever for the killing of Able.
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#6New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:05:56
I agree Chaski. The rabbinical tradition of interpreting and reinterpreting their writings is as fascinating as it is admirable. Most aren't informed of these efforts.
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#7New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:07:01
Did Abraham kill Isaac?

No.

Was it because Abraham came to his senses? Was it because god decided "he" had all the proof of intent that he needed?

Flip a coin...

I'm going with: "it was a myth from the get-go so doesn't really matter, as in the the scheme of things it has virtually no value as allegory, parable, lessons learned... etc...

God wants me to prove my "love" for "him" by killing my son: God can go f*** himself... regardless of whether god is "real" or a sick voice in my head. No good and loving god would test one of his beloved by ordering them to kill their own son... that is the stuff of tyrants, mafia bosses and the mentally deranged.
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#8New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:08:14
A dear friend of mine interprets the acceptance of Able's offering as opposed to Cain's as the acceptance of pastoralism and the denial of agrarianism. God was saying - Just herd sheep dummies
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#9New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:13:17
@4d4m Said

God was pissed off at Adam and Eve for lying about having eaten of the tree of knowledge.


Well actually god was pissed off with Adam and Eve for violating his directive to not eat fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil....which makes god pretty stupid.

After all, god put the tree in the garden. Then put the serpent (most cunning of all creatures) in the garden, knowing in advance what was going to happen.

From a metaphorical perspective it is in line with Prometheus... as a "true story" it makes god out to be an ignorant idiot jackass.

@4d4m Said

Remember that his son Cain killed his son Able because he was jealous of God's acceptance of Able's offering.
Then God curses (or blesses) Cain to live forever for the killing of Able.


Cain killed his brother Able, because the infinite creator god only had enough love for one of the two brothers... instead of showing love, compassion, concern, etc to Cain... instead of trying communicate with Cain and guiding him to becoming a "good" man, god turned his back on Cain and only showed appreciation for Able.

... Yes... yet another biblical story demonstrating that god is an idiot and a jackass.
chaski On 55 minutes ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#10New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:14:24
@4d4m Said

A dear friend of mine interprets the acceptance of Able's offering as opposed to Cain's as the acceptance of pastoralism and the denial of agrarianism. God was saying - Just herd sheep dummies



Your friend is correct. The story is really about just that.... and at a deeper level the farmer vs the city dweller.
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#11New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:15:05
I understand how you feel. I believe the prophets where writing down what they were seeing/hearing going on that some hear and some do not. They felt it was so important they wrote it down and preserved it in religion so it would not be modified ( or only a little ) in the hopes that in the future people would be able to find God, or whoever was playing God.
Spandau: The Secret Diaries by Albert Speer is like that
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#12New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:21:07
The Roman soldier who stabbed Jesus in the side while he was on the cross was also cursed ( or blessed ) with eternal life.
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#13New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:28:52
That's interesting how God comes off as a jackass. Maybe two people or beings are competing to appear to be God at the same time, and maybe one of them is Abraham in this story. Abraham says "Here am I" three times in the chapter. I am is the name God calls himself. And if they are playing voices perhaps Abraham wanted to kill his son but look like the good guy doing it, so he made it out to be a sacrifice to God actually making a big voice to create the illusion to those who might hear.
The other one reminds him of who he is - Adam the Liar by subtly giving him the same blessing ( or curse ). Those who can hear would understand the reference.
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#14New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:47:21
Killing your son is a common thread in the Abrahamic Religions. It actually dates further in the past. The name Moloch comes to mind. According to Rashi the 12th century French Rabi Moloch was Tophet from Jeremiah 7:31 ( NIV version)
"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind."
from the Tanakh Yermeyahu 7:31
7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.
4d4m 12 minutes ago




Leavenworth, Kansas
#15New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 01:49:16
There's a great wiki on it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch
Note the segment dedicated to Saturn eating his son
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