Democracy under attack

NE, Ohio

Jan 08, 2021 @ 00:01:04

Here's a thought:

A court in Baghdad has asked that President Donald Trump be detained as part of an investigation into the assassination of a Shia militia chief who died in a US airstrike alongside Iranian General Qassem Soleimani.

Extradite him to Iraq!

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DiscordTiger

The Queen of Random

Administrator

Emerald City, United States (g

#32

Jan 08, 2021 @ 01:17:50

So, assuming pence takes over officially*
That would make him 46 and Biden 47?

*i say officially, as I suspect something went down last night, but have no proof and the idea it it happening and not being announced is probably even more disturbing.

I could just be misremembering which powers were vp and which weren’t.

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4d4m

4dforum.org,

#33

Jan 08, 2021 @ 02:58:40

@chaski Said

I don’t know that you are right, and claiming that you are right and we know it is complete bulls***.

It is nothing more than your opinion.

Trump should be charged with sedition and terrorism both.

His idiot followers... same,

Oh, and 18 U.S.C. § 641, 18 U.S. Code § 371, 18 U.S. Code § 241 could and should also be charged.

So you don't think that if sedition charges were filed and successfully prosecuted now that in the future they wouldn't attempt to do the same to protesters like Antifa or BLM? You know they would.

It opens up a dangerous and exploitable can of worms. In legaleze that's referred to as "bad precedent."

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Edited: January 08, 2021 @ 03:01

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#34

Jan 08, 2021 @ 03:05:06

@4d4m Said

So you don't think that if sedition charges were filed and successfully prosecuted now that in the future they wouldn't attempt to do the same to protesters like Antifa or BLM? You know they would.

It opens up a dangerous and exploitable can of worms. In legaleze that's referred to as "bad precedent."

If they stormed and breached the capitol, yes they should face similar charges.

But in a trumpsterf*** world, they probably would have been mowed down with tanks. Luckily, we are almost past that.

It was a good thing that (as far as I know) counter-protesters were not present.

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4d4m

4dforum.org,

#35

Jan 08, 2021 @ 03:10:28

I'm impressed with the performance of the police and security personnel. They have been criticized, obviously it wasn't perfect. But it didn't erupt into a shoot out which is good. I think they are more geared for things like assassination attempts and possibly small groups of infiltrators attempting to take hostages. They didn't have the manpower to stop a large group like the one they encountered last night.

They will be analyzing all this and I'm sure making some changes. Facing charges for burglary, theft, destruction of property I don't disagree with. Sedition on the other hand is a very serious offense. Imagine a future where any protester that gets too near a federal building is apprehended for sedition?

Proving intent will be the burden of the prosecution in such a case and I seriously doubt they would be successful.

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mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#36

Jan 08, 2021 @ 03:11:50

Even if he isn't removed from office, trump could be the only prez that has been impeached twice!!

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4d4m

4dforum.org,

#37

Jan 08, 2021 @ 03:14:36

LOL, that would be one for the record books. It's a farce of an ending to someone who in my opinion shouldn't have been the president in the first place. I think that was the point.

Sedition in political terms usually implies generals bringing their armies to the capitol and staging a coup d'etat. If they could prove the Donald had attempted to enlist the help of someone like that they'd have a case. 3 of the people had "medical emergencies" and died. I'm assuming heart attacks because of the excitement. Those people weren't going to overthrow anything and I doubt they thought the whole thing through. That is the biggest tragedy really. People, agree with them or not. who believed in the guy. Misled, lied to and dumped on the side of the road.

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Edited: January 08, 2021 @ 03:18

mrmhead

NE, Ohio

#38

Jan 08, 2021 @ 03:16:45

@4d4m Said

I'm impressed with the performance of the police and security personnel. They have been criticized, obviously it wasn't perfect. But it didn't erupt into a shoot out which is good. I think they are more geared for things like assassination attempts and possibly small groups of infiltrators attempting to take hostages. They didn't have the manpower to stop a large group like the one they encountered last night.

They will be analyzing all this and I'm sure making some changes. Facing charges for burglary, theft, destruction of property I don't disagree with. Sedition on the other hand is a very serious offense. Imagine a future where any protester that gets too near a federal building is apprehended for sedition?

Proving intent will be the burden of the prosecution in such a case and I seriously doubt they would be successful.

No! A bunch of nearly unarmed hooligans broke into and trashed the seat of American democracy.

Don't you think that exposes a huge flaw?

What if it had been armed terrorists with a real plan of taking over the capitol? They would have been able to waltz in and accomplish their goals with ease.

THAT IS A PROBLEM!!

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4d4m

4dforum.org,

#39

Jan 08, 2021 @ 03:24:33

It is a problem but taking over the White House doesn't put one in charge of the country. This isn't 1812. We have a bureaucracy; a very powerful thing. Our country keeps on ticking even when the president is assassinated.

A group of armed terrorists is what those guys are trained for; not crowd control. Foresight, having national guardsmen there as a contingency. Another question, where was the Marine detachment when all this was happening? Come to think of it, why wasn't Trump in his office?

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Edited: January 08, 2021 @ 03:29

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#40

Jan 08, 2021 @ 03:33:08

@4d4m Said

So you don't think that if sedition charges were filed and successfully prosecuted now that in the future they wouldn't attempt to do the same to protesters like Antifa or BLM? You know they would.

It opens up a dangerous and exploitable can of worms. In legaleze that's referred to as "bad precedent."

Your slipper slope theories are hilarious.

0

4d4m

4dforum.org,

#41

Jan 08, 2021 @ 03:40:32

@chaski Said

Your slipper slope theories are hilarious.

Ok, Barr sent federal agents to Portland and detained people blocks from the federal building. Those people were jammed into black unmarked vans and whisked away not to be heard from for a while. You think if Barr could randomly charge people with sedition he wouldn't?

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Edited: January 08, 2021 @ 03:45

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#42

Jan 08, 2021 @ 03:53:45

@4d4m Said

Ok, Barr sent federal agents to Portland and detained people blocks from the federal building. Those people were jammed into black unmarked vans and whisked away not to be heard from for a while. You think if Barr could randomly charge people with sedition he wouldn't?

Barr resigned.

Trump has trashed him.

He probably is looking for a hole to hide in.

And... NO... I do not believe your dumb conspiracy BS.

But hey... maybe the Turtle-Reptilians will invade Planet Earth on January 20, 2021... their first colony to be Washington, DC... of course.

0

DiscordTiger

The Queen of Random

Administrator

Emerald City, United States (g

#43

Jan 08, 2021 @ 04:43:06

Actually, almost nobody actually charged with sedition in the 20th century committed an act as extreme as bringing an army. Most were the acts of just a few people. I think the biggest one was about a dozen or so white supremacists.

One was nurse from here, that wrote letters, i forget the details, and one was something to do with the first trade center bombing. It's not something that we see a lot of charges of, but its not only reserved for bringing in an "army".

With some crimes, it doesn't necessarily matter how "effective and efficient" you are at completing them, even trying or planning to do them is enough for charges to be filed, or an investigation started.

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DiscordTiger

The Queen of Random

Administrator

Emerald City, United States (g

#44

Jan 08, 2021 @ 04:59:23

@4d4m Said

Ok, Barr sent federal agents to Portland and detained people blocks from the federal building. Those people were jammed into black unmarked vans and whisked away not to be heard from for a while. You think if Barr could randomly charge people with sedition he wouldn't?

I don't know that any of us had said to "Randomly charge" people of sedition.

Just that thing went a little far, and that as a "protest" that *waves dramatically at stormed capital building photos* was not normal.

as annoying or whatever as the Portland protestors were, nothing they did or claimed was abnormal. autonomous zones, are relatively common an part of the protest "game" rules.
I'm not agreeing with them, just saying its tactic that has been used before, and not what was going on at the capital this week.

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Edited: January 08, 2021 @ 05:00

chaski

Stalker

Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,

#45

Jan 08, 2021 @ 05:30:00

"People at the US Capitol riot are being identified and losing their jobs..."

Example: "Navistar, a direct marketing company in Maryland, announced that an employee had been terminated after he was photographed wearing his company ID badge inside the breached Capitol building."

I wonder if "it" was worth it...

"Give me liberty or give me..." poverty because I got fired for being a dumb ass... while my president said he was going to walk with me in protest, but he left me high and dry...

f***ing coward...

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