The Forum Site - Join the conversation
Forums: Religion & Philosophy:
Religion

Dedication of to-be-born children by parents to serve faith, their willingness is needed when they'r grown: Systematic Restoration of Faith

Reply to Topic
AuthorMessage
Pages: 1 2 3 · >>
salamsourceofpeace On December 08, 2016




, British Indian Ocean Territo
#1New Post! Jan 22, 2013 @ 01:52:30
Peace be on you. If water supply is stopped before all crop is irrigated, farmer has to start all over again. Similary constant supply of pious people and pure efforts are needed to take the spiritual peace message of God to the world. In the Community of Promised Messiah Mahdi, system of dedication of life to serve the faith exits. It is rooted in commandament to Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) – “Say, My Prayer and my sacrifice and my life and death are (all) for Allah, the Lord of the worlds.” (ch6 : v163). Among that system is a system through which parents dedicate their yet-to-be born children for the sake of restoration of faith worldwide services. When the child become adult, he or she has to write to Holy Khalifah for their willingness to offer themselves, as their parents had done before their birth. Records of such children are kept and they are guided during their upgrowing. Some are selected to study in Jamia (the religious university). Now these institutions are opened in various parts of the world (e.g, India, Ghana, UK, Canada, Germany, Bangladesh, Pakistan); they produce fine quality of pious missionaries and scholars. (In the beginning time of the community, missionaries faced hardships in various parts of the world, but they did their services very well with grace of God). Some other children are guided to continue their studies at home but they are asked to keep acquiring religious knowledge through Community’s system. When they finish their studies, they serve humanity in various capacities. The Holy Khalifah explained the responsibilities of parents and dedicated children in this regard in Friday Sermon of 18 January 2013 at alislam.org. May the divine peace message reach to every heart. The specific system is called Waqf e Nau (Dedication of Young ones).
chaski On about 14 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#2New Post! Jan 22, 2013 @ 02:11:04
Using your analogy Allah is the farmer... maybe he should start providing some "water", otherwise he might have to start all over again... he needs to tend to his fields.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#3New Post! Jan 22, 2013 @ 02:28:44
does allah lable the water drops?
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#4New Post! Jan 22, 2013 @ 10:09:56
@salamsourceofpeace Said

Peace be on you. If water supply is stopped before all crop is irrigated, farmer has to start all over again. Similary constant supply of pious people and pure efforts are needed to take the spiritual peace message of God to the world. In the Community of Promised Messiah Mahdi, system of dedication of life to serve the faith exits. It is rooted in commandament to Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) – “Say, My Prayer and my sacrifice and my life and death are (all) for Allah, the Lord of the worlds.” (ch6 : v163). Among that system is a system through which parents dedicate their yet-to-be born children for the sake of restoration of faith worldwide services. When the child become adult, he or she has to write to Holy Khalifah for their willingness to offer themselves, as their parents had done before their birth. Records of such children are kept and they are guided during their upgrowing. Some are selected to study in Jamia (the religious university). Now these institutions are opened in various parts of the world (e.g, India, Ghana, UK, Canada, Germany, Bangladesh, Pakistan); they produce fine quality of pious missionaries and scholars. (In the beginning time of the community, missionaries faced hardships in various parts of the world, but they did their services very well with grace of God). Some other children are guided to continue their studies at home but they are asked to keep acquiring religious knowledge through Community’s system. When they finish their studies, they serve humanity in various capacities. The Holy Khalifah explained the responsibilities of parents and dedicated children in this regard in Friday Sermon of 18 January 2013 at alislam.org. May the divine peace message reach to every heart. The specific system is called Waqf e Nau (Dedication of Young ones).



@Willi Said

does allah lable the water drops?


No-one can commit another to any faith, whatever their age.

This is especially true of infants or children since no-one knows how they will develop.

A common mistake made by parents and religionists is that they feel they can control how the child matures. They cannot, they can only guide and pray that the guidance is followed, which it often isn't.

Infant baptism is ineffective, and wrong. Commitment to a faith has to be a personal and informed decision by a mature thinking person.
Electric_Banana On February 05, 2024




, New Zealand
#5New Post! Jan 22, 2013 @ 11:09:44
Take one GreatestIAm, throw in a Reviso and voila!
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#6New Post! Jan 23, 2013 @ 04:10:19
@MadCornishBiker Said

No-one can commit another to any faith, whatever their age.

This is especially true of infants or children since no-one knows how they will develop.

A common mistake made by parents and religionists is that they feel they can control how the child matures. They cannot, they can only guide and pray that the guidance is followed, which it often isn't.

Infant baptism is ineffective, and wrong. Commitment to a faith has to be a personal and informed decision by a mature thinking person.



i agree, but if you hook em early, and send em to church schools.
you have a follower for life.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#7New Post! Jan 23, 2013 @ 12:47:37
@Willi Said

i agree, but if you hook em early, and send em to church schools.
you have a follower for life.



So why am I not CoE or Baptist?

I was brought up CoE and religious;y "educated" in a Baptist Sunday School..

However I made my own choices and followed my own path, in the hope of finding God eventually, and I did, with His help.

It all depends on if the child actually believes you or not. I grew up never believing anything without evidence, which made me very popular in school, lol NOT!

As we have all seen on here, teachers don't like being challenged, lol.
townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#8New Post! Jan 23, 2013 @ 13:37:46
@MadCornishBiker Said

No-one can commit another to any faith, whatever their age.

This is especially true of infants or children since no-one knows how they will develop.

A common mistake made by parents and religionists is that they feel they can control how the child matures. They cannot, they can only guide and pray that the guidance is followed, which it often isn't.

Infant baptism is ineffective, and wrong. Commitment to a faith has to be a personal and informed decision by a mature thinking person.


So JW's dont try and make there kids JWs? And they dont outcast them from the family if they dont live a JW life?

Do I really have to read through loads of previous posts and quote what you have said in the past, about how if the kid dosnt conform to there parents religion they get kicked out because it looks bad on the family.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#9New Post! Jan 23, 2013 @ 13:54:44
@townie_guy Said

So JW's dont try and make there kids JWs? And they dont outcast them from the family if they dont live a JW life?

Do I really have to read through loads of previous posts and quote what you have said in the past, about how if the kid dosnt conform to there parents religion they get kicked out because it looks bad on the family.


No they don't, unless absolutely necessary for the peace of the rest of the family. Why would they? It goes against all logic. Throw a child out and you are unlikely to get them back into the faith. Keep them close and they may change their minds. Many do.

For any parent, and especially for a JW, throwing out a disruptive child is a last resort. Who knows whether by seeing the difference between the world outside and inside at close hand they might do a "prodigal son" and come back into the fold. If they are allowed to stay home that is even more likely and so any JW parent would prefer to keep even an unfaithful son or daughter close.

Many also leave of their own volition, but you might be surprised how many come back having seen the world for themselves, so sometimes it is a great object lesson.

However if they disrupt the lives of faithful members of the family, then there is no choice, but it is literally in the hands of the one who wishes to go his or her own way.

I have known many families where the children chose not to follow their, but relatively few where the disruption was severe enough for that action to be taken. However those that are so disruptive that it is done are often the loudest to shout about injustice when there is one.

No I have never said that. The overwhelming condition is not whether or not the child follows it's parents, but whether or not they cause disruption in the family.

Family is important to JWs because it is the basis fr all successful societies. However as with all human relationships a parents first responsibility is to his or her faithful children, and they must be protected.

There are a lot of such stories about JWs but if you knew the truth about them you would find that it is never that simple. One needs to understand both sides of the story, but most only listen to the one, the complainer who shouts loudest.

I'm not saying that JWs are prefect, they aren't, like all humans they sometimes over-react to the pain of someone not choosing to follow the rest of the family on what they see, rightly, as the path to life, but also as with all other things it is often the guilty who shout loudest.

How many parents have thrown children out of their home because they were trouble makers? Many more than just JW parents. If you only have one child it is much less of a problem, but when you have more, then you have to consider the family as a whole, not just one individual.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#10New Post! Jan 23, 2013 @ 13:58:13
@townie_guy Said

So JW's dont try and make there kids JWs?/QUOTE]


Sorry forgot this bit.

No, you cannot make anyone a JW, they have to do that themselves.

Obviously they teach them as children, as does any part of society or any faith, but there is no force, no threats only education.

Inside or outside the faith it is and remains a personal decision by each one.

God would not accept it any other way.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#11New Post! Jan 23, 2013 @ 14:04:45
@townie_guy Said

Do I really have to read through loads of previous posts and quote what you have said in the past, about how if the kid dosnt conform to there parents religion they get kicked out because it looks bad on the family.



You can quote what you like, I have never said that it was done because it looks bad on the faith.

As you demonstrate the opposite is true all too often. People love to condemn without knowing all the facts, of which you area prime example.

It is only ever done if the child is disruptive.
townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#12New Post! Jan 23, 2013 @ 14:07:07
@MadCornishBiker Said

You can quote what you like, I have never said that it was done because it looks bad on the faith.

As you demonstrate the opposite is true all too often. People love to condemn without knowing all the facts, of which you area prime example.

It is only ever done if the child is disruptive.


Define disruptive.

STealing from parents is disruptive. Taking drugs under parents roof is disruptive.

If they are doing something and its not under parents roof, ie having a boyfriend who isnt JW, would you class that as disruptive enough to be thrown out. Ive seen it happen.
MadCornishBiker On January 14, 2014

Banned



St Columb Road, United Kingdom
#13New Post! Jan 23, 2013 @ 14:25:08
@townie_guy Said

Define disruptive.

STealing from parents is disruptive. Taking drugs under parents roof is disruptive.

If they are doing something and its not under parents roof, ie having a boyfriend who isnt JW, would you class that as disruptive enough to be thrown out. Ive seen it happen.


It has a very wide range of interpretations.

"dis·rup·tive   [dis-ruhp-tiv] https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disruptive?s=t

adjective

causing, tending to cause, or caused by disruption; disrupting: the disruptive effect of their rioting.

Origin:
1835–45; disrupt + -ive

Related forms
dis·rup·tive·ly, adverb
dis·rup·tive·ness, noun
non·dis·rup·tive, adjective"

I doubt if it happened purely for that reason, there is usually a history behind these things, that may have been, and almost certainly was, the "last straw". I wonder what the parents would say.

Were they behaving immorally with that boyfriend?

Were they being quiet about it or making a show of it in front of other children, possibly parading their "independence" as if it were a good thing?

Were they making what they were doing seem an attractive option?

There are so many variations on a theme that without knowing fully both sides of the situation I cannot judge.

I do know that if there were other children they were setting a bad example to them and that in itself could be disruptive, if it were having that sort of effect.

All I can really say is that I hope, and in want of fully knowledge of the situation trust, that the JWs concerned were not over-reacting.

Scripture doesn't mention the case of children specifically but the principle is the same as to how one part of a marriage should react in similar circumstances.

1 Corinthians 7:12-16 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/bl/r1/lp-e?q=1+Corinthians+7%3A12-16 "But to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord:+ If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and yet she is agreeable to dwelling with him, let him not leave her; 13 and a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and yet he is agreeable to dwelling with her, let her not leave her husband. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to [his] wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, YOUR children would really be unclean,+ but now they are holy.+ 15 But if the unbelieving one proceeds to depart,+ let him depart; a brother or a sister is not in servitude under such circumstances, but God has called YOU to peace.+ 16 For, wife, how do you know but that you will save [your] husband?+ Or, husband, how do you know but that you will save [your] wife?+"

So it is always preferrable for the unbelieving one to stay within the household if possible.

However each case is different and there are aspects to each case which are unique, and which we will probably never be told by either party.
townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#14New Post! Jan 23, 2013 @ 14:26:11
@MadCornishBiker Said

It has a very wide range of interpretations.

"dis·rup·tive   [dis-ruhp-tiv] https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disruptive?s=t

adjective

causing, tending to cause, or caused by disruption; disrupting: the disruptive effect of their rioting.

Origin:
1835–45; disrupt + -ive

Related forms
dis·rup·tive·ly, adverb
dis·rup·tive·ness, noun
non·dis·rup·tive, adjective"

I doubt if it happened purely for that reason, there is usually a history behind these things, that may have been, and almost certainly was, the "last straw". I wonder what the parents would say.

Were they behaving immorally with that boyfriend?

Were they being quiet about it or making a show of it in front of other children, possibly parading their "independence" as if it were a good thing?

Were they making what they were doing seem an attractive option?

There are so many variations on a theme that without knowing fully both sides of the situation I cannot judge.

I do know that if there were other children they were setting a bad example to them and that in itself could be disruptive, if it were having that sort of effect.

All I can really say is that I hope, and in want of fully knowledge of the situation trust, that the JWs concerned were not over-reacting.

Scripture doesn't mention the case of children specifically but the principle is the same as to how one part of a marriage should react in similar circumstances.

1 Corinthians 7:12-16 https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/bl/r1/lp-e?q=1+Corinthians+7%3A12-16 "But to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord:+ If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and yet she is agreeable to dwelling with him, let him not leave her; 13 and a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and yet he is agreeable to dwelling with her, let her not leave her husband. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to [his] wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, YOUR children would really be unclean,+ but now they are holy.+ 15 But if the unbelieving one proceeds to depart,+ let him depart; a brother or a sister is not in servitude under such circumstances, but God has called YOU to peace.+ 16 For, wife, how do you know but that you will save [your] husband?+ Or, husband, how do you know but that you will save [your] wife?+"

So it is always preferrable for the unbelieving one to stay within the household if possible.

However each case is different and there are aspects to each case which are unique, and which we will probably never be told by either party.


So being in a relationship is a bad example?
Reply to Topic<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>
Pages: 1 2 3 · >>

1 browsing (0 members - 1 guest)

Quick Reply
Be Respectful of Others

      
Subscribe to topic prefs

Similar Topics
    Forum Topic Last Post Replies Views
New posts   Religion
Thu Jan 10, 2013 @ 17:28
2 378
New posts   Religion
Wed Dec 26, 2012 @ 08:07
8 569
New posts   Religion
Tue Dec 11, 2012 @ 17:05
42 1749
New posts   Woman Talk
Fri May 11, 2012 @ 07:22
10 3218
New posts   Religion
Sat Oct 13, 2007 @ 19:42
33 2711