Common misconception about America's role in WWII

I don't know where the idea came about or who has been spreading it around, but it seems like lots of people nowadays seem to regard America as the hero in WWII; the nation who stopped the big, bad Nazis from doing their big, bad crimes against the Jews, but that's really not the case. Granted, the U.S did play a gargantuan role in the dissipation of the Nazi party and the victory of the Allies, but the political aspect of it has recently been lost to some.

Contrary to apparently popular belief, the U.S did not enter WWII to save the Jews. We entered because of Japan. Japan bombed us and we bombed them back and that's basically how we got involved. It was never about the Nazi's horrible crimes. I'd even go so far as to say that had it not been for Japan's eagerness to poke a sleeping bear, we would never have joined the war and might be comfortably sitting in front of our t.v. sets while the Nazis dominated Europe even now. Our government knew about what was going on (even if they didn't know the details) but never bothered to lift a finger, simply because they didn't care enough about it to do anything.

And so, America is not the savior of the Jews nor is it the 'hero' of WWII. We entered the war for the same reasons everyone else entered; either to gain something from it or to protect themselves against it. It is unfortunate, but factual.

btw, i'm pretty sure the majority of you who are reading this already know what i'm telling you, but i've had this argument so many times with so many people over the last few months that i just had to get this out there. i just can't believe so many people still don't know the facts about what really drives a nation like ours to war...

First of all, noone with a whit of sense ever claimed that the US entered WW2 "to save the Jews." If you ever hear that nonsense, just walk away and don't even bother to argue.

Noone, governments, churches, whole peoples, was about to go to war for the Jews. As humiliating as that is to admit, and as ghastly and evil as the Holocaust was, it had nothing to do with why any country opposed Hitler. If he had stayed quietly at home, murdering his own Jews, Romany, gays, mentally handicapped, or whatever, Hitler would quite probably have died of old age in a contentedly Aryan Germany.

Nazi Germany's real threat to the world was as an expansionist regime of totalitarian militarism and economic exploitation. As such, it could not be allowed to "run wild", and upset the ballance of international security.

Japan did, in fact, bring the US into the war. But, the very fact that the Roosevelt government quite quickly decided to concentrate first on knocking out Germany rather than the immediate agressor, shows that they well understood where the real threat lay. If the Pearl Harbor attack had not come, the US would have eventually entered the war by some other means -- it was, in the long run, necessary.

As for the US "knowing what was going on", that's a huge oversimplification. Everyone knew that the Jews and others were being very badly mistreated under the Nazi regime. They had been badly treated for centuries by most European countries (Germny's record was, in fact, better than many). But, I think it safe to say that the horror of the reality was simply beyond the comprehension of any sane person. In their worst nightmares not Americans, nor anyone else could have foreseen what was happening. We have seen the pictures, the newsreels of Auschwitz, of Belsen. People then had only rumor -- and who could believe such tales and remain sane?

Regards,
Jno

I agree with jno.
This American has no misconceptions about the reasons
(many, directly and indirectly) American entered WWII.

As far as i know the USA was involved in a lot more than the conflict with japan, its true that the bombing of pearl harbour pushed the effort massively and its true that bombing hiroshima pretty much ended the whole thing but many many americans lost thier lives in europe taking france back from the nazis and protecting the UK. America came in just at the point where we were completely exhausted.

Having said that without Canada or the Anzacs we would have been screwed a long time before that.

GREAT BRITAIN FOR THE WIN

During the Summer and Fall of 1940, the Brits stood alone aganst the overwhelming power of Nazi Germany. When there seemed no hope left, they huddled in their underground shelters as the bombs rained down, refusing to give up. Then they came out and fought back heroically. And Winston Churchill, the last great Imperialist, and a bigoted old SoB in so many ways, was the Necessary Man, the heart and soul of that resistance. For this the world owes them and him a great debt of gratitude. (This is not to ignore, of course, the many exploitations and injustices that same prople -- and man -- have to answer for. Noone is entirely good or wholly bad, and credit should always be given where it is due.)

But tens of millions of humans, from every nationality sacrificed and suffered to overcome the Nazi menace. To the great Human spirit goes the credit for the final victory.

Regards,
Jno

I don't think they went in 'to save the Jews'. Not sure I've ever heard anyone say they believe that either, but from the sources I read it wasn't just the Pearl Harbor bombings that instigated America's entrance into the war. It was probably the most obvious and perhaps deciding reason, but I think there were other aspects that pushed America into joining fully with the Allies.

U-boats for one were sinking American civilian boats, and whilst they were in a position of 'Splendid Isolation' the feeling was very much pro-ally. I believe, thought I may be mistaken, that whilst the American public didn't support intervention, the President himself did and was waiting for an opportunity to justify it to the people.

Pearl Harbor was without a doubt a good justification, but I think the Americans would have intervened at some point even without it.

Still laugh at when I watch programmes set in America and they say the War started in 1942!

Correct me if I'm wrong but... isn't that the exact same thing that I said???

Yes, I think it was with just one disagreement. I don't think that the U.S. would have entered the war had it not been for Japan. The very proof is in history. We remained neutral until the attack on Pearl Harbor and we would have remained nuetral until any such attack was adinistered by Japan or Germany or whomever.

But the point of this thread was to highlight the fact that the U.S. did not enter the war to protect the Jews and on that, at least, we do agree.

After Pearl Harbor hitler declared war on the US!

A lot of people think that the US worked on the H-bomb at such a fevered pace to beat the Nazi's to it. Actually, the Manhattan Project was an attempt by FDR to find a way to super heat the mead he drank as an aphrodisiac. He believed it would reverse the polio damage and turn him into a super soldier who could strangle fascism single handedly.

Not entirely alone. The Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians were quick to come to Britians aid. Just as they had been in the Great War. During WWII approx 40% of all convoys travelling btw North America and Britian were escorted by Canadian warships.

During the decisive Battle of Britian 20% of all fighter pilots were non British. Pilots from Poland, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and France all fought for the RAF against the Germans.

Indeed it was a New Zealander who was tasked with the defence of London and south-east England. The man to whom I refer was Air Vice Marshal Keith Park. He was Commander of No. 11 Group RAF.

"If any one man won the Battle of Britain, he did. I do not believe it is realised how much that one man, with his leadership, his calm judgment and his skill, did to save, not only this country, but the world".

—Lord Tedder, Chief of the Royal Air Force, February 1947 about Keith Park.

I had a mate of mine whose sister spent a year on exchange in the US when she was 14. One of the first tests she had was a multiple choice. One of the questions was as follows

"World War One took place between what years
a. 1914-1918
b. 1915-1918
c. 1916-1918
d. 1917-1918

Now she of course answered 'a' (though technically you could argue that the war didnt end until 1919 when the treaty of Versailles was signed). Anyway, she was shocked to find that her answer had been marked as wrong. When she took it up her her teacher she was told that up until the US entered the war in 1917 the Great War wasnt a world war but rather a European war. This despite the fact that the war was being waged across not only Europe but Asia, the Middle East, Africa, the Pacific and off the coast of South America. This despite the fact that countries from more than 30 countries from all corners of the globe were involved in the conflict. And yet in this teachers eyes it was not a world war until the US became involved. Reminds me of the US song from the 80's..."We are the world"

The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was broken after Stalin banged Eva Braun in a dairy barn in Poland.

I can understand why people hold to that view for often that is what we have been told. The truth is however somewhat different. Before any atomic bombs were dropped on Japan the Japanese had been looking at a way to end the war. What they wouldnt consider however was unconditional surrender. They had seen what unconditional surrender meant to Nazi Germany and were very much aware of the nazis being arrested for war crimes. This concerned the Japanses greatly as the emperor — who was believed to be divine — might be put on trial by the west. And what if they (the allies) got rid of the emperor and changed the form of government entirely? These were the key reasons why the Japanese would not agree to unconditional surrender even though their air defences were - by 1945 - all but non exisitent, and their cities were being razed to the ground by conventional bombing.

The reality is that the bombing of Hiroshima did not spark a crisis within the Japanese ruling elite(the Supreme Council). Indeed they didnt even meet to discuss the bombing until 3 days later. And the decision to finally accept unconditional surrender tot he west came before they knew about the 2nd bomb that had been dropped on Nagasaki.

The simple truth is that Japan's decision to accept unconditional surrender to the western allies had everything to do with the Soviet's decision to invade Manchuria and the southern half of Sakhalin Island (9th of August, 1945).

The Japanese believed that the western allies would not invade the Japanese home islands until around October-November 1945 (at the earliest). The Soviets on the other hand could invade Japan's home islands before the end of August. This alarmed the Japanese as the Soviets had come to power by overthrowing and then executing the Tsar and his family, and abolishing Russia's Royal family and general system of government. So what might they do to Japan's beloved emperor? What would happen to Japan's royal family? History suggested nothing good.

When the Soviets invaded Manchuria and the southern half of Sakhalin they easily sliced through the weakened Japanese forces. Japan's best troops had been positioned in the southern Island of Kyushu. So whilst the Japanese had shrugged of the US bombing campaign (including the two atomic bombs) of their cities they couldn't shrug of an imminent Soviet invasion and all that it entailed.

Once the Soviets declared war on Japan the Japanese knew that they had very little time to decide if they accepted the western allies call for unconditional surrender (and hoped that the west wouldnt arrest their emperor, that they wouldnt remove him) or fight on knowing that the Soviets would be in a position to invade the Japanese home islands months before the western allies could.

In truth the dropping of the two atomic bombs had nothing to do with Japan agreeing to unconditional surrender to the west. Once the Soviets declared war they saw unconditional surrender to the west as being the lesser of two evils.

In reality the atomic bombs were dropped for three reasons;
a) to test just what effect an atomic bomb would have on a city (setting off an atomic bomb in the desert didnt tell them this)
b) to send a warning to the Soviets and
c) in the off chance that it might maybe persuade Japan to accept unconditional surrender (it didnt).

This itself is a common misconception (at least in the US) about America's role in WWII. The common US view seems to be that they came in and defeated the Nazis and saved Europe in the process. This simply isnt true.

There were three main powers who played an important role in contributing to the defeat of the Nazis. These powers were the Soviets, the British (and their Commonwealth allies) and the US. Of these three powers the Soviets played the most important role. From a military point of view the US had the least impact on the Nazi's defeat. That is not to say that the US role was unimportant, it's just that militarily it wasnt as important as the other two.

The Soviets...Depending on which figures you believe somewhere btw 80-92% of ALL German military deaths occurred on the Eastern front fighting against the Soviets. The overwhelming majority of Germany's armed forces were concentrated on the Eastern front.

The British (and their Commonwealth allies)...Had Britain fallen in 1940/41 the Nazis would not have ended fighting up fighting on two fronts and the Soviets would most likely have been defeated. Apart from the very significant role the British (and Commonwealth) forces played, the single greatest contribution to the defeat of the Nazis may well have been the ability of the British to crack the German enigma code (special credit to Turing). The Germans never realised the British had done this and it meant that right till the very end the British were able to intercept and read German signals. This meant they knew for example exactly what units were where, who commanded those units, what their strengths were, what losses they had suffered etc etc etc. It also meant they knew in advance what operations the Germans were planning. This for example proved critical to the Soviet victory at Kursk (the greatest tank battle in history). Note - The British shared their information with their western allies but not with the Soviets. However Soviet spies within British military intelligence passed on to the Soviets exactly what the Germans were planning. This proved almost certainly to be the difference btw victory and defeat for the Red army.

The US...the greatest military contribution by the US was in the months before D-Day where their airforce played an important role in largely destroying the Luftwaffe in western Europe. This was largely due to the long range of the Mustang P51D and its ability to operate effectively at high altitudes. Whilst the US military contribution was of value it was actually the US economic contribution that had a greater impact on the eventual defeat of the Nazis. For example the amount of raw materials and military equipment that were sent to the British and the Soviets.

The reality is that btw 1939-44 the German military was the strongest in the world. As powerful as the Soviet army was (and by 1945 it was the most powerful army on the planet) it couldnt defeat the German army on it's own. And neither the British (and their Commonwealth allies) nor the US - either on their own or together - had any chance of defeating the Nazis. In the end it took the might of three major world players to eventually defeat the Nazis. Without a significant contribution from all three victory would never have been achieved.

Note - To give you an idea just how good the Wehrmacht were...

By June 1944 the Wehrmacht were a shadow of what they had been in 1942. The airforce had been all but destroyed giving the allies complete air superiority. Their navy had also been rendered ineffective whilst the army had suffered crippling losees. In the West, the allies possessed 2000 tanks against less than 100 German, 14,000 aircraft against a few hundred of the Luftwaffe’s. The disparity extended to artillery, arms and ammunition. And yet despite being significantly outnumbered, despite the allies having complete control of the air and a huge advantage in tanks, artillery etc, despite fighting on multiple fronts, the Wehrmacht were able to fight on for 11 months after D-Day.