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ninozara On April 30, 2020




Cheshire, United Kingdom
#106New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 14:50:43
@Leon Said

Well I wasn't really commenting in the Girl Power thing, but rather commending their ability to make millions off of what it was they did, like it or not, agree with it or not.

As far as the Girl Power thing, I think Jennifer is indeed giving them a bit too much credit. Yes, girls are definitely viewed in a different, more empowering light today than in the past, but that was a work of many societal factors and influences. Certainly the Spice Girls were an avenue for the celebratory expression of such change, but it would have still been happening without them in my opinion. They were not the cause of it. As you point out, other acts have done the same thing. It was the times more than anything.



You're right. The Spice Girls reached a certain audience, but 'Girl Power' was already in full swing. The General Election happened that year, and more that double the amount of women than ever had been elected to Parliament - months before Spice Girls hit the charts.

They were around the same time as Buffy, Tank Girl, Xena, Lara Croft - strong powerful women who could kick a** and look good. Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Clarissa Explains it All - cool, smart teenage girls. Plus Pocahontas and Mulan, Disney princesses yes, but a new kind, based on real women who were heroes.

It annoys me when people say 'I wasn't alive then, it doesn't matter'. I've been more influenced by people who are dead/retired then anything that has been released in my life. I know that me and my friends knew Aretha Franklin, Frank and Nancy Sinatra, Nivarna...the list goes on.
Leon On December 21, 2023




San Diego, California
#107New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 14:51:23
@Jennifer1984 Said

Your last sentence makes the most sense. It was the times. All along in this thread, I've been talking about what happened to my generation. What influenced anybody else is up to them but as this whole discussion about the Spice Girls won't seem to lie down then what happened then, at that time is the most relevant thing.

I wasn't born when Aretha Franklin sang "Respect" in the USA, a song that didn't even chart in the UK (not that I can find, anyway and I've looked) and would probably never have been heard by anybody here who wasn't a dedicated fan of hers, if it hadn't been featured on the Blues Brothers movie (which also came out before I was born).

Be that as it may.

The shift in attitudes is, I agree, a longer process than being affected by one influence, but there are such things as "tipping points".... a situation where a movement can be in progress for a long time but achieves little until something happens which provides the final push. This is what I believe happened in the mid 1990's... at least in London.

There were a number of things that came together (I've already said this in previous posts) which contributed. The Internet / Mobile phone technology and market realisation that adolescent girls had greatly increased spending power were two such things.

I must confess to being a tad bemused at being told by middle aged Americans who have probably never been here, who know very little about my country or its social influences, about what happened to me in my city when I was actually in the middle of the 'revolution' and experienced it as a contemporary of that time.

I was a teenage girl, attending a south London school, was a big fan of the Spice Girls and had first hand experience of what was happening amongst me and my peers, what we felt, what our attitudes were and how it all influenced us. I was there, guys. In person.

Far be it from me to play 'one-up', but don't you think you're not really in any sort of position to tell me that I'm "Giving them too much credit"...?

We sure as heck weren't listening to Aretha Franklin, I can tell you that for certain (most of us hadn't even heard of her at that time).

It's fine to have an opinion... I'm not knocking that, but please.... making broad, sweeping statements on things you didn't experience, weren't of the same generation, and didn't even live in the same country, let alone the city where it was focused is a bit rich.


.

.


You're not really doing anything different here. You were also speaking for society based on your vantage point. The only thing you can say for certainty is how much the Spice Girls has influenced YOU and the people you know, as the rest is an opinion merely based on your interpretations of what you saw. However, I can also make an opinion on the influence on society based on what I saw. So I stand by my opinion and don't see anything wrong with expressing it.
boxerdc On December 18, 2012

Deleted



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#108New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 15:59:27
@ninozara Said

It annoys me when people say 'I wasn't alive then, it doesn't matter'. I've been more influenced by people who are dead/retired then anything that has been released in my life. I know that me and my friends knew Aretha Franklin, Frank and Nancy Sinatra, Nivarna...the list goes on.


I can not imagine that there is a single person in the first world who has not heard of Aretha Franklin... She is quite likely the most popular soul singer of all time, and her music spawned thousands of other female artists careers..

Anyone who says that they had never heard of her, or that she didn't matter were obviously not living in the first world.. or they were so low on the social scale that they were unable to afford radio..
townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#109New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 16:19:51
@boxerdc Said

I can not imagine that there is a single person in the first world who has not heard of Aretha Franklin... She is quite likely the most popular soul singer of all time, and her music spawned thousands of other female artists careers..

Anyone who says that they had never heard of her, or that she didn't matter were obviously not living in the first world.. or they were so low on the social scale that they were unable to afford radio..


Ive never heard of Aretha Frankin. Well not until now. Music wise I have only been influenced by the musical revolutions that have happened whilst I have experienced them.

Same with most things in life.
boxerdc On December 18, 2012

Deleted



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#110New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 16:33:16
@townie_guy Said

Ive never heard of Aretha Frankin. Well not until now. Music wise I have only been influenced by the musical revolutions that have happened whilst I have experienced them.

Same with most things in life.


Do you honestly expect me to believe that you've never heard these two songs before now? Because if that's the case, you're obviously living in the 21st century equivalent of a monastery.



ninozara On April 30, 2020




Cheshire, United Kingdom
#111New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 16:38:17
@Jennifer1984 Said


I wasn't born when Aretha Franklin sang "Respect" in the USA, a song that didn't even chart in the UK (not that I can find, anyway and I've looked) and would probably never have been heard by anybody here who wasn't a dedicated fan of hers, if it hadn't been featured on the Blues Brothers movie (which also came out before I was born).



@boxerdc Said

I can not imagine that there is a single person in the first world who has not heard of Aretha Franklin... She is quite likely the most popular soul singer of all time, and her music spawned thousands of other female artists careers..

Anyone who says that they had never heard of her, or that she didn't matter were obviously not living in the first world.. or they were so low on the social scale that they were unable to afford radio..


Respect was a top ten hit in the UK charts on the late 60s, over a decade before Blues Brothers came out. I think lots of people had heard of her before BB. Her albums were still making it into the UK charts in the 90's. (That took literally, a quick google).

Plus, her songs seem to be featured in successful films each decade - Blues Brothers, My Best Friends Wedding, School of Rock. She's a living legend. How can someone not know her?? (I'm not even a music person, by any stretch of the imagination).
townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#112New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 16:43:17
@boxerdc Said

Do you honestly expect me to believe that you've never heard these two songs before now? Because if that's the case, you're obviously living in the 21st century equivalent of a monastery.





I am 30 years old. I lived in New Zealand when I was kid. I listened to Micheal Jackson a lot.

When I moved to the UK, I genrally just listened to Meatloaf for a couple of years. Then moved onto Metallica, then started listening to chart music. Then moved onto Dance and Urban music.

I dont listen to radio stations that play old music. I only listen to essential selection really. ANd I have a collection of about 100 CD's in my car, so I dont even bother with the radio.

TV wise, I watch MTV, MTV dance and Clubland TV. And I used to watch Rapture TV.

So no, songs from the 60's dont really cross my path. ANd when I go out drinking or clubbing. If a club or a pub plays old stuff, I genrally wont go in there.

I used to be a crasher kid, so I spent my younger clubbing years going to places like Gatecrasher and Progress. Then I went to Festivals like Creamfields and a couple of less well known raves that wernt even legal.

So I really dont know any music from before I was born on the whole. Unless it is overplayed.
townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#113New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 16:45:11
@ninozara Said

Respect was a top ten hit in the UK charts on the late 60s, over a decade before Blues Brothers came out. I think lots of people had heard of her before BB. Her albums were still making it into the UK charts in the 90's. (That took literally, a quick google).

Plus, her songs seem to be featured in successful films each decade - Blues Brothers, My Best Friends Wedding, School of Rock. She's a living legend. How can someone not know her?? (I'm not even a music person, by any stretch of the imagination).


Well Jennifer is younger than me. ANd I was born in 81. So again chart music from the 60's dosnt mean anything.

As for those films you have mentioned. They arnt films I would watch personally.
boxerdc On December 18, 2012

Deleted



,
#114New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 16:47:46
@ninozara Said

Respect was a top ten hit in the UK charts on the late 60s, over a decade before Blues Brothers came out. I think lots of people had heard of her before BB. Her albums were still making it into the UK charts in the 90's. (That took literally, a quick google).

Plus, her songs seem to be featured in successful films each decade - Blues Brothers, My Best Friends Wedding, School of Rock. She's a living legend. How can someone not know her?? (I'm not even a music person, by any stretch of the imagination).



She was also the second woman inducted into the "UK Music Hall of Fame" in 2005. Madonna was the first.

And, in November 2008, she was named by Rolling Stone as the No. 1 all-time best singer of the rock era, according to the magazine's survey of 179 musicians, producers, Rolling Stone editors, and other music industry insiders.

For someone to say that they haven't heard of her, or that her contributions didn't matter is ludicrous.

Not to mention that she was chosen to sing at the Inauguration of President Obama.


boxerdc On December 18, 2012

Deleted



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#115New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 16:49:56
@townie_guy Said

I am 30 years old. I lived in New Zealand when I was kid. I listened to Micheal Jackson a lot.

When I moved to the UK, I genrally just listened to Meatloaf for a couple of years. Then moved onto Metallica, then started listening to chart music. Then moved onto Dance and Urban music.

I dont listen to radio stations that play old music. I only listen to essential selection really. ANd I have a collection of about 100 CD's in my car, so I dont even bother with the radio.

TV wise, I watch MTV, MTV dance and Clubland TV. And I used to watch Rapture TV.

So no, songs from the 60's dont really cross my path. ANd when I go out drinking or clubbing. If a club or a pub plays old stuff, I genrally wont go in there.

I used to be a crasher kid, so I spent my younger clubbing years going to places like Gatecrasher and Progress. Then I went to Festivals like Creamfields and a couple of less well known raves that wernt even legal.

So I really dont know any music from before I was born on the whole. Unless it is overplayed.


She has had at least one top ten hit in every single decade since the 1960's.. She has won 18 Grammys, one with George Michaels and one with Annie Lennox..

If you've never heard of her, I weep for you.
townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#116New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 16:55:58
@boxerdc Said

She has had at least one top ten hit in every single decade since the 1960's.. She has won 18 Grammys, one with George Michaels and one with Annie Lennox..

If you've never heard of her, I weep for you.


Nah Im just a different generation to you. I have songs I like, which mean a lot to me. But if someone hasnt heard them or of them, I accept that not everyone has the same musical tastes.

COnsidering most the music I like would be classed as Electronica. Then I like a bit of Hip-Hop as well. It really isnt surprising I dont listen to that sort of music.
DorkySupergirl On November 02, 2017




, Canada
#117New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 17:26:29
@boxerdc Said

I can not imagine that there is a single person in the first world who has not heard of Aretha Franklin... She is quite likely the most popular soul singer of all time, and her music spawned thousands of other female artists careers..

Anyone who says that they had never heard of her, or that she didn't matter were obviously not living in the first world.. or they were so low on the social scale that they were unable to afford radio..


I have never purchased a CD by Ms. Franklin and the 60's were before my time but I still would be able to sing from beginning to end Respect and Natural Woman. Its one of those things that one just knows. Its like not watching Jaws, you still know the saying about needing a bigger boat.


She's an icon that no matter if you were alive in 60's or even care for that type of music, you just know who she is and know the words to at least Respect and Natural Woman.
townie_guy On May 07, 2013

Deleted



, United Kingdom
#118New Post! Aug 15, 2012 @ 18:08:50
@boxerdc Said

She was also the second woman inducted into the "UK Music Hall of Fame" in 2005. Madonna was the first.

And, in November 2008, she was named by Rolling Stone as the No. 1 all-time best singer of the rock era, according to the magazine's survey of 179 musicians, producers, Rolling Stone editors, and other music industry insiders.

For someone to say that they haven't heard of her, or that her contributions didn't matter is ludicrous.

Not to mention that she was chosen to sing at the Inauguration of President Obama.




Well I have heard of Madonna, I remeber her having number ones, shown on MTV and her songs were on a few Compilation CD's that I purchased.
But I wouldnt go out of my way to listen to her songs. The only one that sticks in my head is Die ANother Day. As it featured in the Bond film by the same title.

As for rolling STone, I dont read it, never have, at this point in my life I dont reckon I ever will. But who knows my musics tastes may change.

As for the music industry, I occaisonly read mixmag, then all my other tastes do genrally revolve around Clubland (the scene not the label).

I really have no interest in ROck music. I was into that scene when I was younger, I have seen System Of A Down live. But thats about it.

And the Inauguration of President Obama really dosnt mean anything to quite a lot of British people. We have our own stuff to deal with. Again, the Spice Girls taking over the UK, like they did, when they first formed has a lot more bearing to me than the Inauguration of President Obama.
TenaciousDave On February 11, 2022
The Anus Of Satan





Jeffrey Dahmer's Lunchbox,
#119New Post! Aug 29, 2012 @ 20:35:31
@Leon Said

Well they did take a break didn't they?



Pete Townsend loves the cock!
TenaciousDave On February 11, 2022
The Anus Of Satan





Jeffrey Dahmer's Lunchbox,
#120New Post! Aug 29, 2012 @ 20:37:10
@boxerdc Said

Jennifer.. Not Britian..

Please stop thinking that this has anything to do with your country... Your country is lovely.. My mothers father was born in the Cotswalds, and I have cousins there who are lovely... I also have friends from here who are British, and they're lovely.

If you haven't figured out that it's the posts of one individual that irk me by now, then you're not paying attention, as we've had this conversation many times.



We all know you wanna f*** Jenny...stop pretending that you don't like her and f*** like a couple of wild boars!
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