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Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#46New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 00:42:20
@Reviso Said

Dawkins was wrong about Objectivism. Karl Marx was rather right; that is so because God (evil OR not) will always fill the Gap even though we're not sure objectively yet what the Gap is micro-physically about.



Do you put words in a hat and just type them in the order you draw them?
lefty On July 19, 2018
AKA: friendlybear





Oh, Canada
#47New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 00:43:52
@Jennifer1984 Said

Are you sure you spelled that last word correctly..?

.


I think so... clicky it, it's a link.

Unless you think I was trying for C*NT. View Image
Reviso On November 23, 2014

Banned



Trenton, Canada
#48New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 00:48:13
@Eaglebauer Said

Do you put words in a hat and just type them in the order you draw them?



I in turn don't understand you people; I live in America too (Canada to be exact). I have values that matter to reveal about the meaning about the freedom of religion. Thank you for the input.
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#49New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 00:59:52
@Reviso Said

I in turn don't understand you people; I live in America too (Canada to be exact). I have values that matter to reveal about the meaning about the freedom of religion. Thank you for the input.



My comment isn't really directed at your values. You have posted things several times in the past that don't really seem to follow linguistic logic, and while I admit the post I was replying to this time was more lucid than usual, you speak of Marx being right about Objectivism, which didn't really exist until after he was dead. I'm honestly not trying to be insulting.

Why does it matter where you live? What does that have to do with any of this?
lefty On July 19, 2018
AKA: friendlybear





Oh, Canada
#50New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 01:04:23
@Eaglebauer Said

My comment isn't really directed at your values. You have posted things several times in the past that don't really seem to follow linguistic logic, and while I admit the post I was replying to this time was more lucid than usual, you speak of Marx being right about Objectivism, which didn't really exist until after he was dead. I'm honestly not trying to be insulting.

Why does it matter where you live? What does that have to do with any of this?


If you had half a brain, it would be lonely.

Did you ever think that English may be a second language for Reviso?

We do have 2 official languages in our country.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#51New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 01:07:38
@MadCornishBiker Said

Not if, as science confirms may have been the case, there was too dense a cloud layer or dust cloud for the light to be visible on earth.

Your trouble is you are so determined to prove the bible wrong to justify ourself that you aren't prepred to think it through past the point that suits what you want.



What is the use of crating su with colour vision? We don't need it. There are so many things like that, some of whihc have obvious answers, some of which, literally, only God knows. Maybe we will one day.

Do you not think that some of it was designed simply for something good to look at, for us and for Him?

However the moon does have other uses. It's gravity causes tides which keep the oceans from going stagnant on us. It is, as the bible says "a luminary for the night". It is also a means of measuring time periods longer than one day. That's why the early calendars were usually lunar ones, especially the Hebrew Calendar.
Again, don;t just read think.



It's called "the English Language."

How about the fact that all of the first 6 days were carefully closed off with very much the same phrase, and yet the 7th has never been closed down? Could that be because it is not yet over? It was the basis for the "Sabbath" in the law, both the weekly one and the one every 7th years. Christ was called the "Lord of the Sabbath". Could that be because that day is still open for him to be called that?

Once again, lol, think.



It is not God's fault we have made English so ambiguous over the years. It was less so when I was a child, and even less so in Shakespeare's day, even less so in Chaucer's day, so much less ambiguous that we can barely understand it now.

What makes you think that the original language wasn't perfect before God was forced to confuse it to slow us down in our suicidal course back at Babel? You accuse me of making assumptions and yet your belief is full of them, as full of them as it is lacking in true thought and consideration. That is why your posts are always so easy to answer.



As you display so eloquently, the lack of joined up thinking is all yours I'm afraid.



No, you have only thought of it as a slave to your own bodily impulses, not with any intention to truly understand it. It is you who is the slave, slave to your own desires. To our own self interests.

If I am a slave, I am a slave of God and Christ, and there is no better way to be a slave. Better than being enslaved by the mt of freedom. There is no such thing. In this war you can only be a slave to God or a slave to Satan. There are not alternatives because simply refusing to be a slave of God makes you a slave of Satan.

You have chosen to swap an eternal future in peace and happiness fro a few short years of sexual ecstasy in this life. Your choice, but you will reap what you sow unless you stop sowing it.





I think our differences are irreconcilable. I have tried to engage with you on a variety of levels.... on the site and in private conversation. I once invited you to come and meet with me and my wife, and our friends in a social situation and received a flat rejection. Only this week I tried to invite you to meet with me at a library meeting... I even offered to pay for the tea and got no response.

I've gone out of my way to befriend you in a spirit of open cameraderie and have been totally blanked.

The principle difference between our viewpoints is that I see the world from the point of view of progressive scientific advancement, and you see it from the viewpoint of primitive superstition. It has become clear that there is no overcoming these differences and this saddens me. I don't admit defeat readily, but your single-minded obsessiveness is something that, frankly, I find more than a little scary. I'm glad we didn't meet now. I don't think I'd want to make contact with somebody who my wife suggests (yes, I've shown her your messages) could be potentially unstable, possibly even dangerous.

You speak on issues such as homosexuality from a position of absolute ignorance and condemn it out of hand on the say-so of a few scribblings from the backwoods of an ignorant history. You refuse to listen to those who have actual 21st Century, living-in-the-here-and-now experience of the situation, preferring instead to lecture them again on a subject of which you have no knowledge or experience.

I respect your right to believe as you wish, but when you attempt to use your so-called faith as a weapon to intimidate, bully and oppress me, then I speak out. Now I see the futility of discussion with you, I take the view that I have had my say and see no point in taking any discussion further.

I fear we will never see eye to eye on anything, and the point at which any attempt to make amicable discussion in a spirit of mutual respect, in the hope that we might both learn something has proven fruitless. You are interested only in battering people into submission of your views to the exclusion of all else.



.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#52New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 01:14:15
@lefty Said

If you had half a brain, it would be lonely.

Did you ever think that English may be a second language for Reviso?

We do have 2 official languages in our country.




I must say that I find Eaglebauer to be one of the more articulate, fair minded and objective posters on this site.

I don't always agree with him, and we have crossed swords on issues on more than one occasion, but I think you would do well to read what he has to say and take note.

I personally have a lot of time and respect for his opinions.
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#53New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 01:14:30
@Reviso Said

I in turn don't understand you people; I live in America too (Canada to be exact). I have values that matter to reveal about the meaning about the freedom of religion. Thank you for the input.


I guess it depends how you define freedom of religion, but I do not support it per se. For example, it is easy to mount a very strong case for Islam teaching the slaughter of Jews, Christians, and indeed, anyone else that will not become a slave (dhimmi) or convert (Surah 9:29 for example). Freedom to follow that practice should not be guaranteed. Although, the freedom of people to preach it, I think, should be protected
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#54New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 01:17:37
@lefty Said

If you had half a brain, it would be lonely.

Did you ever think that English may be a second language for Reviso?

We do have 2 official languages in our country.


I getcha. I understand. Speaking English as a second language pushes back the beginning of Objectivism to before the death of Karl Marx. I guess that makes sense.

Does it also explain these, which he made in this thread?


Quote:

The good economics of Reagan? Do you think the human genome my not be exhaustible, and human character a symbolic gesture to one's odd-ball heredity. Dawkins fails the time of thinking Man for "more research".



Quote:

The good economics of Reagan? There really is Character to explain Evolved by one's heredity and past biological Facts. Actually we always knew personality.



Quote:

You mean Evolution would be the materialistic explanation for Nature failing our economic well-being, but Reagonomics could show us the way in the evolutionary look of all this pollution.



How does not speaking English as a first language make talking about Reaganomics relevent to anything anyone has said? I did say that I wasn't trying to intentionally insult him, I'd really like to see if there's some kind of connection, but I don't think there is. The difficulty of a lot of the things I have tried to make sense out of that have been posted elsewhere by the same person really do go beyond language ability.

You seem to have no problem with insults though.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#55New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 01:17:38
@Reviso Said

I in turn don't understand you people; I live in America too (Canada to be exact). I have values that matter to reveal about the meaning about the freedom of religion. Thank you for the input.



Freedom of religion is a fundamental basic principle in any free society. Nobody should oppress the genuine beliefs of another person.

However, when the religious individual uses his faith as a weapon to intimidate or bully another person, then they have taken their liberty of belief too far.

It is not right for any individual to attempt to impose their belief on another by means of threats of eternal damnation or any other means.

A person has the right to whatever faith they wish, but that faith is personal, and they should keep it so.

.
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#56New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 01:26:02
@Jennifer1984 Said

That actually makes more sense than religion.

.



To be fair, I think the best you could say about Dawkins position, taking into account its credibility is non-existent, is that it reaches only the heights of religion in terms of credibility. I would obviously dispute that, but, you are free to believe as you will.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#57New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 01:36:52
@bob_the_fisherman Said

To be fair, I think the best you could say about Dawkins position, taking into account its credibility is non-existent, is that it reaches only the heights of religion in terms of credibility. I would obviously dispute that, but, you are free to believe as you will.



The almost polar differences between believers and determined non-believers such as Dawkins makes any sort of agreement almost impossible.

Religionists don't want to hear what he has to say, so the mindset is concrete hard from the off. It goes without saying that his position is pretty much the same, from the other extreme.

You say his credibility is non existent, but (IMHO) that's not true. He is a highly educated man and has set out his arguments lucidly and rationally. Some people simply don't want to accept them, is all.

I have read The God Delusion and frankly, wasn't too impressed with the overall work, myself, but he does make a number of individual valid points which expose the inconsistencies and irrationality of religious doctrine.


.
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#58New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 01:55:20
@Jennifer1984 Said

The almost polar differences between believers and determined non-believers such as Dawkins makes any sort of agreement almost impossible.

Religionists don't want to hear what he has to say, so the mindset is concrete hard from the off. It goes without saying that his position is pretty much the same, from the other extreme.

You say his credibility is non existent, but (IMHO) that's not true. He is a highly educated man and has set out his arguments lucidly and rationally. Some people simply don't want to accept them, is all.

I have read The God Delusion and frankly, wasn't too impressed with the overall work, myself, but he does make a number of individual valid points which expose the inconsistencies and irrationality of religious doctrine.


.


I actually laughed at the aspersion that Dawkins is lucid or rational. You should read some more of his work. The Selfish Gene Theory and Climbing Mt. Improbable are great for disproving your contention.... but anyway... yes it is true that Dawkins and his opponents will not agree, barring a miracle of some kind.

What people often fail to understand, I think, is the inherent irrationality of their own view. Neither theism of any kind, nor any version of naturalism, is rational enough to be, in and of itself, convincing to all people. We believe what we believe for a host of reasons, and the rational only comprises a small part of the entirety of our reasons.
Jennifer1984 On July 20, 2022
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#59New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 02:05:43
@bob_the_fisherman Said

I actually laughed at the aspersion that Dawkins is lucid or rational. You should read some more of his work. The Selfish Gene Theory and Climbing Mt. Improbable are great for disproving your contention.... but anyway... yes it is true that Dawkins and his opponents will not agree, barring a miracle of some kind.

What people often fail to understand, I think, is the inherent irrationality of their own view. Neither theism of any kind, nor any version of naturalism, is rational enough to be, in and of itself, convincing to all people. We believe what we believe for a host of reasons, and the rational only comprises a small part of the entirety of our reasons.



I can't say I have read the other works that you mentioned, and to be honest, have no real desire to unless a good reason to do so comes up.

I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkins, but he has a point and to simply pooh-pooh it out of hand well... that is simply typical of the polarisation to which I referred.

Your second paragraph alludes to a very Darwinian principle. Diversity. Diversity of thought, it is true, but it is diversity nonetheless. Did you realise you were doing that when you wrote it..?
<snigger>

.
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#60New Post! Mar 04, 2012 @ 02:14:06
@Jennifer1984 Said

Your second paragraph alludes to a very Darwinian principle. Diversity. Diversity of thought, it is true, but it is diversity nonetheless. Did you realise you were doing that when you wrote it..?
<snigger>

.


Variation is not evidence of anything. If diversity (or, variation), is evidence for naturalism, then it *must* be true that non-variation, or, cloning, is evidence for theism. This is logic that has broken.

Variation is a fact, and, it is remarkably neutral. That does not stop people claiming it as evidence, but they are wrong when they do so.
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