Brexit

I mean, clearly 'he's not seen by Brexit supporters as part of the establishment', but just because they don't seem him that way does not make it so.

I don't intend to keep going on with this...

All I will say is that what was said by Tory MPs in the lead up to the 2017 election is important in understanding exactly what the party meant when they said in their manifesto that leaving with no deal would be better than leaving with a bad deal. And what they said is very much at odds with how you are trying to spin things.

The simple reality is that voters accepted that the Tories meant what they said in their manifesto, and during the 2017 election campaign. Turned out a number of them didnt. Almost all of those who crossed the floor last year (and in so doing acted in a way that was completely at odds with the promises they and their party had made leading up to the election) are no longer MPs.

Now you can keep trying to re-interpret what they said, what the party said, leading up to the 2017 election in a way that absolves them from blame. I don't care. They were held to account by the voters for their actions and they are no longer MPs. End of story.

Again, you don't answer my questions and you provide no proof to back up your assertions. Nothing new there then. Anyway, I don't care.

That's simply your opinion. You offer no PROOF.


So you can't reply on what they say. So what should you rely on?

The reality is that the Tories and Labour EXPLAINED what respecting the vote meant. They just didnt do as they promised and the people held them to account for this in December.



Of course it wasnt a reckless move. Turns out it was a bloody good move. Under TM the government had not been able to get anything done so their grasp on power re Brexit was already non existent. As for burning bridges. What BJ actually did was draw out from the murky shadows those who were blocking the governments efforts to fulfill their 2017 election promises re Brexit. BJ's actions left MPs with no place to hide and thus made it much easier for voters to determine exactly where parties and MPs stood re Brexit. The result was a thumping majority for BJ which enabled him to finally respect the 2016 vote by taking the UK out of the EU. Now as I have said many times, leaving the EU is only the first step. The people could still be betrayed. However, so far so good.



You keep saying how complicated the issues were. To you maybe. To leave voters no. For them the issues were/are very simple.

Have you seen the absurd graph the EU have drawn up that is supposed to represent EU trade with select countries? What a joke. At the very best it is extremely misleading, and that's being incredibly generous. Indeed Cambridge University Professor Spiegelhalter stated that the EU’s graph was 'indefensible', and that it went against "standard graphical practice".

Now the whole point of their graph was to explain why the UK could not be treated like other countries and why they must accept dynamic alignment with the EU and accept ECJ jurisdiction. Not only does the graph monstrously misrepresent actual trade with the countries that they have cherry picked but it ignores major trade 'partners' like the US, China and Russia. Indeed Russia is an interesting case as they are pretty much on the EU's doorstep. Furthermore, their trade with the EU is very significant. So I wonder if the EU are now going to send Barnier to Moscow to tell Putin that for trade to continue the Russians are going to have to accept EU laws, rules, regulations and policies, as well as the authority of the ECJ. Wouldn't that be an entertaining meeting to sit in on!

As I told Jennifer many days ago, I didn't, and don't, pay minute attention to daily British Politics or the back and forth of their political machinations. This is why I wanted to focus specifically on what you said regarding their manifesto. I could confirm that. Confirming what you are saying now, however, would be time consuming and tedious.

We've been through this before and I don't want to spend hours looking up specific evidence only for you to say that they aren't and dismissing them. So what would you accept?



You shouldn't blindly trust people to do what they say. You should instead trust your own ability to make judgement calls and work out how feasible anything they say actually is. Of course, all of this is already assumed since the leavers keep insisting that they knew what they were doing, weighed the risks and benefits, and understood how feasible it was, so I don't see what the point of bringing up the words of the politicians is when the leavers own logic and reasoning should stand irregardless of what was said.



I cannot find anything regarding this from a cursory glance, and a more meaningful one will literally take hours for a person who's searching blindly, like myself.



If you want to condone reckless actions because it happened to work out to your sides benefit this time, then that's on you.



Did you even read anything else past that? I literally point out exactly what you just said here.

If you think his actions were somehow reckless good for you. The reality is the UK has gone from having the most unstable and ineffective government in Europe to having the most stable one. This has happened because of actions that you THINK are reckless.

Interesting watching the bickering among member states re the new EU budget. Not surprisingly countries like Éire arent excited about being asked to pay in more whilst getting less back.

Meanwhile Germany will now be contributing 25% of the EU's budget....

We also have French fisherman demanding that Macron secures for them the same access to British waters from 2021 as they currently enjoy.

An interesting fact...

Based on data for 2017/18 the average EU growth rate was just 1.4%. Throughout the Commonwealth during this same period the average growth rate was 3.3%.

Oh, and very sad to see ET out of the Labour leadership race.

That's probably not a bad thing. Germany can do this I think.

They should make more babies to keep up with the number of Germans who die.

I quite like the new UK passports...