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shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#301New Post! Nov 21, 2019 @ 17:33:52
Amazing how anyone can claim that Labour are a leave party. Their official policy is to negotiate a deal with the EU (which is essentially 'remain' without any representation) and then have another referendum. Of course Labour are promising to respect the result of this new referendum. Just like they did in the lead up to the last one. This time around however they might actually respect the result as no matter which way it goes the UK will effectively remain in the EU. They really must believe voters are especially stupid.

Now all Labour MPs I have heard speak on the matter are quite open about the fact that, having negotiated a new deal, they would campaign to remain. That is they will seek to convince the electorate that the great new deal they have negotiated isnt very good and the country would be much better remaining in the EU (even though as previously stated Labour's new deal would see the country effectively remain anyway). All except JC who still won't say what he will do even though it's pretty bloody obvious.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#302New Post! Nov 21, 2019 @ 17:49:20
Meanwhile the EU continue to talk about the need to create a great European state/empire to combat the empires of the US, China and India. This of course means needing to have a large, strong European army. It's got to the point where the Secretary General of NATO has felt it necessary to come out and say that Europe's defence needs to be centred around NATO and not around any EU defence force. But of course some would have us believe that the EU dont want their own army even though the EU leaders themselves arent shy about saying that's exactly what they want and what will happen. You only have to listen to recent comments by Ursula von der Leyen and Charles Michel. Then look at the 5 year plans and proposed funding increases for PESCO and the EPF.
Jennifer1984 On about 4 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#303New Post! Nov 21, 2019 @ 18:40:42
WTF has any of that got to do with Brexit....???

As if it matters to you anyway... What is your interest in European military matters...?

Frankly, I'd be quite happy to see a combined European military force. Reduce the risk of British troops being sent to join American wars in places where we have neither legitimacy or national interest.

Frankly, if anybody asked me if I wanted an EU Army, I'd be happy to vote for it. There'd be far less chance of British troops being committed to military conflicts that were nothing to do with us.

British troops defending the British homeland..?? Doing it as part of an integrated European force...? Well, I'd rather there was no war at all, but if it was completely unavoidable then fine.

Better still, declare neutrality and have sod all to do with any of it.

If the Aussie wants people to die in pointless wars that they have no national interest in, send Australians, although their track record isn't too much to shout about
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#304New Post! Nov 22, 2019 @ 13:28:37
@Jennifer1984 Said

although their track record isn't too much to shout about


F^ck off you ignorant c^nt. If you knew even a little of military history you would know that the record of our military is absolutely 2nd to none, and that we have always punched far above our weight...

Australian troops for example played a significant role in the 2nd Anglo-Boer War. We also played a major role in ww1. For example, at the height of the 1918 German spring offensive over 1/3 of the total British line was held by Australian troops. We stopped the German offensive at Amiens. We also spearheaded the Allied assault on August 8, 1918...what Erich Ludendorff called “the black day of the German army.” Note, this offensive used plans first drawn up by Monash (the Australian commander). Indeed the way Monash used infantry, tanks, artillery and planes in a co-ordinated strike was studied by leading military strategists btw the wars...including Germans such as Manstein and Guderian . In WW2 Australians once again answered the call when the UK declared war on Germany and many Australians served in the RAF/RAAF in defence of the British mainland. Our troops also had great success in North Africa and the middle east including the defence of Tobruk and playing a vital role in the Second Battle of El Alamein. In the Pacific our troops were the first to stop a Japanese general advance and the first to defeat a Japanese invasion force...I could go on and on and on, I could talk about Korea, the Malay emergency, the Borneo confrontation, Vietnam, East Timor, Afghanistan and Iraq...only I'm not going to waste any more of my time on the likes of you. Anyone who knows anything about military history knows you are full of s***e.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#305New Post! Nov 22, 2019 @ 13:32:20
@Jennifer1984 Said

WTF has any of that got to do with Brexit....???

Seriously? You don't think an EU army has anything to do with Brexit? You don't think the idea of placing the lives of British servicemen in the hands of unelected Eurocrats in Brussels is a part of the whole Brexit debate?
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#306New Post! Nov 22, 2019 @ 13:37:00
@Jennifer1984 Said

Better still, declare neutrality and have sod all to do with any of it.


Yeah because historically that has worked so well...
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#307New Post! Nov 22, 2019 @ 13:44:32
@Jennifer1984 Said

If the Aussie wants people to die in pointless wars...

You really are a WOFTAM.

Unlike you, I actually care about those who serve and don't want to see any service men (or anyone else) die in any war...but unfortunately that is wishful thinking.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#308New Post! Nov 22, 2019 @ 13:51:46
Back to Brexit and, true to form, EU leaders are still trying to influence British politics...in this case a General Election. No surprise there.
shadowen On June 15, 2020




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#309New Post! Nov 22, 2019 @ 13:58:17
And isnt it funny how Labour have embraced economic predictions of the CBI over the past 4 years or so when it comes to anything negative to do with Brexit. Indeed, they have trumpeted these CBI predictions and treated them like they were unassailable facts. And yet now that the CBI are warning of all sorts of economic problems if Labour gets in suddenly the CBI's predictions are completely worthless. So apparently the CBI can predict the future re Brexit but have no credibility when it comes to unhelpful predictions pertaining to a JC led Labour government.
Jennifer1984 On about 4 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#310New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 03:11:57
@shadowen Said

F^ck off you ignorant c^nt. If you knew even a little of military history you would know that the record of our military is absolutely 2nd to none, and that we have always punched far above our weight...

Australian troops for example played a significant role in the 2nd Anglo-Boer War. We also played a major role in ww1. For example, at the height of the 1918 German spring offensive over 1/3 of the total British line was held by Australian troops. We stopped the German offensive at Amiens. We also spearheaded the Allied assault on August 8, 1918...what Erich Ludendorff called “the black day of the German army.” Note, this offensive used plans first drawn up by Monash (the Australian commander). Indeed the way Monash used infantry, tanks, artillery and planes in a co-ordinated strike was studied by leading military strategists btw the wars...including Germans such as Manstein and Guderian . In WW2 Australians once again answered the call when the UK declared war on Germany and many Australians served in the RAF/RAAF in defence of the British mainland. Our troops also had great success in North Africa and the middle east including the defence of Tobruk and playing a vital role in the Second Battle of El Alamein. In the Pacific our troops were the first to stop a Japanese general advance and the first to defeat a Japanese invasion force...I could go on and on and on, I could talk about Korea, the Malay emergency, the Borneo confrontation, Vietnam, East Timor, Afghanistan and Iraq...only I'm not going to waste any more of my time on the likes of you. Anyone who knows anything about military history knows you are full of s***e.



I thought you weren't talking to me anymore...???

But hey.... it's nice to see you're keeping on topic.

Shadeowen said:


@shadowen Said

Anyway, rather than have this thread get muddied by posts concerning the upcoming UK elections perhaps someone would like to start a separate thread for that topic...


Clearly the same rule doesn't apply to a certain countries shortcomings in conflict. It's one thing to turn up..............


@shadowen Said

Seriously? You don't think an EU army has anything to do with Brexit? You don't think the idea of placing the lives of British servicemen in the hands of unelected Eurocrats in Brussels is a part of the whole Brexit debate?


Frankly, I don't care if we have a European Army or a British one. I'd rather we didn't fight in any wars where there was no clear and immediate threat to the UK mainland.

My point was that I believe there is less risk of Britain being dragged into another war such as Iraq or Afghanistan if our politicians ..... who are too easily pressured by countries like USA ..... do not have the final say. The EU would never have sent our troops to Middle East back in 2003.

France declined America's invitation to take part and what repercussions did they suffer for their temerity..? America changed the name of chips from French Fries to Freedom Fries. Oh, how we laughed.


On the plus side, France didn't spend hundreds of billions of pounds (Euros), and thousands of French troops didn't die in a war that was nothing to do with them.
Jennifer1984 On about 4 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#311New Post! Nov 23, 2019 @ 04:01:26
Tory Manifesto Launch This Weekend Will Tiptoe Around The Big Issues

Now that the Aussie is talking to me again (he's gotten over his schoolboy sulk and is back in his finest, most belligerent form, I'm glad to see) we can get back on topic.

The Tories are anxious to keep the election focus on Brexit and are clearly nervous that Labour has succeeded so far in making it all about the issues on which they are strongest.

Although there is a long way to go, and I don't have much faith in polls, the gap is narrowing. This is probably the best explanation as to why the Tories are launching their manifesto now, rather than sticking to their original plan of a launch in early December......... probably to avoid there being too much time to scrutinise it and pull it apart.

They look set to walk back on their "Too difficult to do" stance on insisting that the value of people's homes should count towards the threshold for claiming social care. This is undoubtedly a response to Corbyn's promise for free social care for the over 65's. Clearly they've been rattled by that one.

Brexit hasn't figured in any meaningful way in this election debate. Johnson's attempts so far to pump Dominic Cummings' "Let's Get Brexit Done" slogan hasn't found its way onto everybody's lips. Rather, people are getting bored with the constant repetition. Johnson managed to say it 11 times in a 84 second response to one question (that had nothing to do with Brexit) from (guess who) Laura Kuenssberg on the Beeb.

It will be interesting to see the full manifesto when it's launched this weekend. It looks like the Tories are finally going to get into this election campaign. Labour and the LibDems have set the early running so far

Scotland looks totally lost to the Tories now despite Alex Salmond's appearance in court yesterday on sexual harassment charges.

There are also starting to be the first rumblings of concern over the future of the Faslane naval base in an independent post Brexit Scotland. The very, very anti-nuclear SNP will also be looking closely at the future of the US base at Holyloch. That's one for the future though. Let's keep our eye on the here and now where Scotland is concerned.

Plaid Cymru launched their manifesto which actually contained the first hints of a move towards independence for Wales. That'll go down well in the north of the country. There are also rumblings of demanding reparations from the English for all that coal during the Industrial Revolution and the world wars.

Where is this election heading at this stage...? Still nobody can tell. The Tories are still favourites with the bookies, but as pointed out before they were favourites in 2017 too so I don't place too much faith in them.

As one commentator said "There is so much bad feeling towards both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn that if None Of The Above was on the ballot paper, it would win hands down".

I think that's about right at this point.
Jennifer1984 On about 4 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#312New Post! Nov 24, 2019 @ 15:11:20
@shadowen Said


F^ck off you ignorant c^nt.




You show your true personality with comments like that. But hey, I've been called worse than that on an anti-war demonstration. If that's the best you can do, you show your lack of imagination and are simply behaving like the typical 'Aussie male' stereotype that I've always believed you to be.

And when it comes to c^nt I'll bet I get more of that than you.


@shadowen Said


Anyone who knows anything about military history knows you are full of s***e.


Now you know how I feel when you talk about sport.
nooneinparticular On August 05, 2020




, Hawaii
#313New Post! Nov 26, 2019 @ 23:04:32
@shadowen Said

I disagree...


With which part?
nooneinparticular On August 05, 2020




, Hawaii
#314New Post! Nov 26, 2019 @ 23:13:26
@shadowen Said

Seriously? You don't think an EU army has anything to do with Brexit? You don't think the idea of placing the lives of British servicemen in the hands of unelected Eurocrats in Brussels is a part of the whole Brexit debate?


That's kind of how all military alliances work though. Even the ones currently in place. Alliances revolve around mutual military help. Sometimes that means you get dragged into wars that are not of national interest or all that beneficial in the short term to a country in question.
Jennifer1984 On about 4 hours ago
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#315New Post! Nov 28, 2019 @ 06:29:13
@nooneinparticular Said

That's kind of how all military alliances work though. Even the ones currently in place. Alliances revolve around mutual military help. Sometimes that means you get dragged into wars that are not of national interest or all that beneficial in the short term to a country in question.



A very pragmatic approach and it would be reasonable if applied to "alliances" such as economic, social, political or any other form other than military.

In military alliances, people die. Countries are laid waste. There is genuine human suffering on an unbelievable scale.

This far transcends any other form of alliance.

A military alliance can be useful for the security of smaller nations but those countries must weigh the obligations against the benefits and should always (in my opinion) only embark upon them in such a way as to ensure the defence of their own homeland.

In the case of Europe, it is a continent that has been at war with itself for centuries. We have seen the rise and fall of Empires. France and Germany at war with each other almost constantly. Holland attempting to build an empire of its own. Spain.... Denmark... the Eastern European states scrapping for control of the Balkans. Blimey, we can go all the way back to the Roman Empire, or the Greek wars of antiquity.

The British have been to war with just about all of them at some point.

No continent has engaged in war to the extent that Europe has.

The EU grew out of the darkness of World War II and has eradicated war between its member states. This has led to an outbreak of peace since 1945 the like of which this continent has never known. There is no intention of any member state going to war with another.

But others, on the outside, are not so peaceful in their intent. The big bear to the East still looks at Europe as a place to be conquered.

Britain doesn't need a military alliance that will drag it into wars in places the offer no threat to us and don't seek to harm us. What we need is a force of sufficient size and capability to deter those nations that might think of trying their luck.

That's my idea of a military alliance. One of mutual states with mutual interests and no external agenda beyond the security of its own borders.

A threat to one EU nation is a threat to them all because no other country is interested in invading, say, Poland only. An invasion of Poland would only be the start of an intended continent-wide assault and therefore would be a direct, real and present threat to the UK mainland.

Britain's current involvement with NATO works against us because it is completely US dominated and subjects member states to American interests, which are not necessarily to do with ours.

Britain was only needed by the USA in Afghanistan and Iraq for political reasons..... another permanent Security Council member siding with them to give political legitimacy to wars that were completely illegal. Nothing more than revenge for 11/9. There was never the slightest threat to the British (or US, come to that) homeland.

I would rather we declared neutrality than be a part of any military alliance at all, but that's not a popular opinion here in a country that is psychologically still living the world wars of the 20th century. I'm very much in the minority, but that's my opinion for what it's worth.

But hey....... Brexit. Shall we get back to that..?
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