Brexit

Democracy is dead...?

Since when was holding a vote on anything anti-democratic..?

To turn your own argument against you, you only like a vote when it goes in your favour. Anything that doesn't comply with your agenda, you label "anti-democratic".

Democracy can be applied to almost anything. Sure, it revolves around the core principle of granting the wishes of the majority. That's a given.

But the majority can change it's mind.

A majority for anything today can be something quite different tomorrow and that most often happens when an ignorant or deceived or manipulated public comes to realise that it has been duped.

A change of mind can occur when that public comes to realise that it has been lied to. When it has voted for something criminal. When it has voted for something that will do it harm.

All those things apply to Brexit. Most people are basically decent and honest. They want to be able to rely on the..... er.... decency and honesty of what they vote for. Most people are not liars and don't like being lied to. Most people are not criminals and don't like to be manipulated by criminals. Most people want to prosper and thrive and don't like to be impoverished.

As the truth about Brexit.... and the real ramifications of where it's headed.... have emerged over the last three years, many people have indeed become angry. Angry at having been lied to. Angry at having been manipulated by criminals. Angry at the prospect of having their lives impoverished (and not just financially). Wow, are they angry.

And so it is believed that there is now a majority of people in the country who would, given the opportunity, wish to revoke Article 50.

Let's be honest (go on Bob.... give it a try) the best deal Britain is ever going to get is the one it's already got.

Now.... you can argue that the EU is undemocratic. But we send MEP's to the European Parliament. How undemocratic is that..? We have elected representatives, in the European Parliament who represent our interests. They have one vote, just the same as they would in the Commons at Westminster. They get to put the UK's case in the Council. The same principle of "one man, one vote" applies there as it does here. Where's the 'anti-democracy' in that..?

You could argue that we send a lot of money to the EU, but like any club, you have to pay your membership. But it aint £350 million a week, now is it...? And well you know that. The infamous big red bus lie has been exposed for what it is long ago. Don't tempt me to re-open that festering sore.

You could argue that the EU allows too many migrants into Britain. But we need those migrants. They do the jobs that native Britons won't do. This summer,
Tonnes of crops have been left to rot as EU migrants have stayed away due to Brexit. Farmers in Cornwall are now complaining that they're losing a fortune as they watch their fields turn brown and wither.... food that could be eaten.

We NEED migrant workers. And yet.... Brexit would deny those very workers... who we NEED...... access to come and work here... to pick the crops and the food we rely on.... to pay the taxes that would be used to maintain our welfare services. This sort of short-sighted lose/lose mentality, borne mostly out of a resentment that they don't speak English as a first language, damages our country.

Every argument in favour of Brexit can be - and has been - be debunked.

And yet.... you still want to go ahead with it.

I make no bones about it. I'd stop it if I could. I'd take Article 50, tear it up and throw it in the bin where it richly deserves to be. But I can't do that and in the end, I think we WILL leave the EU.

But we can soften the blow. And that, I believe, is what Parliament will do as much as they can to achieve.

Your warped and perverted version of 'democracy' is served if Britain leaves the EU. If we are no longer members and don't pay the membership fee*, when we no longer send MEP's.... when we lose our vote in the EU Parliament... Then we are no longer members and the result of a criminally corrupt, warped referendum won on a tissue of lies and dishonesty... is served.

But it doesn't have to be a hard Brexit. That wasn't on the ballot paper.

It would serve Britain's economic well being to have a close trading arrangement with Europe. Staying in the Customs Union would achieve that. We're still not in the club any more. The Brexiters argue that this would hamper Britain's chances of arranging trade deals around the world.

But why should we arrange independent trade deals with other countries. We already have them.......

By Being In The EU, Britain already Has Trade Agreements With 50 Other Countries

The list includes USA, Canada, India, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Brazil, Mexico. Japan and South Korea..... Oh, and the EU 27 + Norway and Iceland The only big players missing from that list are Russia,Australia and China. But I'll bet the EU gets trade deals with those countries before Britain does, and at better terms. Again, Britain loses.

How long will it take to negotiate trade deals with all those 50 countries...? And what terms will we get...? I'll betcha the terms wouldn't be as good as the ones we already have as EU members.

It may be that Brexit will happen. In fact, I'd bet on it.

It's a death cult that a number of people in the country (but I believe it's no longer a majority) seems to be determined to drink the Kool Aid on.

And the poison won't taste good.




*having settled our outstanding obligations. Did you notice that in the 'deal', Bob...? Britain WILL pay the £33 billion.... you know... the £33 billion our baleful Prime Minister told them they could "Go whistle" for.

Kept quiet about that, haven't they, eh..?

This is not the USA. You can pass any bill you like over there. You can run your country any way you want. I imagine the document you refer to went through a number of processes first, with civil servants and lawyers. I imagine all the necessary amendments that needed to be made were made before it got to the rubber stamping phase.

But the 'deal' here hasn't been subjected to any legal or political scrutiny at all yet. It hasn't been debated in the House (which is how we like to do things). It has not been put up for amendment.

Johnson wanted it railroaded through for one reason only. So he could meet his self proclaimed and much trumpeted 31 October deadline.

He wanted to be able to go on the six o clock news with a big, beaming grin on his mug and gloat that he'd "delivered". That he was the hero. That he had "defeated the remoaners with good old fashioned British pluck and determination not to be bullied by the slimy Frogs and the dastardly Bosch.

With Boris Johnson, it is ALL about Boris Johnson.

The truth is, that he only put proposals to Brussels at all because he was forced into it by Parliament.

He had a choice to make. Be humiliated (and highly likely prosecuted*) if he failed to comply with the Benn Act, or:

Go to Brussels and try to get something..... anything...!!

He didn't want to negotiate. Boris Johnson wants a hard Brexit, but he realised he wasn't going to get one and so he had to go for 'damage limitation'.

And so he dusted off Teresa May's original Withdrawal Agreement, changed a line here and there.... tweaked a comma or two..... Oh, and shafted Northern Ireland while he was about it..... then brought it back.

I was surprised that Leo Varadkar went for it, but he is subject to his own voters and has been under pressure for some time. Johnson's tweak gave him an opening by preserving the open border.... well, sort of.... and that was the political "Get Out Of Jail Free Card" he needed.

Once Ireland accepted the 'deal', the EU were always going to comply with whatever Varadkar found 'acceptable'.

It was a stitch-up for Northern Ireland but hey, who ever cared about them...? Collateral damage but this is Brexit and that is the Death Cult that MUST be satisfied.

This sort of thing (the 'deal' doesn't get hustled through Parliament. Not in this democracy it doesn't. For a start, it hasn't even been established that all of it is legal yet. It MUST..... at the very minimum.... be scrutinised by legal experts.

THEN it has to be debated - properly - and any amendments voted on and put to Brussels for agreement.

As I said before.... Boris Johnson cares only about what is good for Boris Johnson. He has bet his shirt on leaving the EU on 31 October.

The noises coming out of the EU are for an extension to 31 January. EU May Offer Another Extension

Boris hasn't delivered.

No smug grin on the six o clock news. No opportunity to gloat. The Remoaners are still not yet defeated.

And to call an election, he has to get a two-thirds majority in the House of Commons, thanks to the Fixed Term Parliaments Act (Enacted by the government of a certain David Cameron).

Johnson may well get his general election, but it will only happen if Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party allow it. And if they do, they will do it, not when it suits Boris Johnson.

In 2017, the Tories had a massive poll lead going into the GE. They expected to come out of it with a 100+ seat majority. They ended up losing 40+ seats and became a minority government dependent on the DUP to prop them up.

Funny things, elections. They don't always go entirely according to plan.





*And boy, were the opposition just sharpening their knives to haul him into court. In this country, Contempt of Court carries a possible prison sentence. It CERTAINLY debars anybody from holding public office. When he came out of jail, there would be a new tenant in Downing Street.

And the best part...? He would have had to stand in the dock and face a bench of judges who he has been calling "traitors" and "enemies of the people" for years.

How delicious.

Boris Johnson is a lying, conniving, duplicitous, vainglorious oaf working only for the personal ambition of Boris Johnson.

In order to further his own personal ambition, nearly four years ago he climbed into bed with dark money and shadowy agendas. The two now work hand in glove but be under no illusions.... Boris Johnson works only for Boris Johnson.

The will of the people...? Do you mean the will of 17.4 million out of more than 46 million people of voting age in UK today..?

He is working for the will of SOME of the people. The fact that many did not vote in 2016 is a sign of the complacency of that time. Also, the demographic has now changed and a significant number of that 17.4 million have since died.

Also in that time, everybody who was aged between 15 to17 yrs 364 days on 23 June 2016 will now have achieved majority age. What about THEIR will...?

Are they to be eternally disenfranchised...?

"Will of the people..". You reduce that to nothing more than a cliche.

Rumours are starting to circulate that a certain Nigel Farage intends to stand for election in the constituency of Uxbridge and South Ruislip.

So what? I hear you ask.... well, the current MP for that constituency is Boris Johnson.

Oh, how I so hope it will come to pass. Split the Brexit vote (very possible if Boris fails to deliver on his 31 October deadline) and see them both fall flat on their faces as the LibDem candidate swans through the middle and takes the seat.

Johnson becomes the first PM in history to fail to defend his seat at a GE, and Farage fails to enter Parliament at the 8th attempt. Heaven on earth.

Perhaps it's just a rumour and nothing will come of it, but ohhhhhh, if only dreams could come true.

The boundaries of this constituency were gerrymandered some years ago, reducing the constituency of Hayes and Harlington* which was a serious right-wing stronghold. Their PM before gerrymandering was a bloke called Terry d***s, probably the most odious man to ever inhabit Parliament, but the voters of that area loved him, so be under no illusions, this constituency is up for grabs to the man with the most extreme right-wing agenda. Splitting that vote would, politically, kill two birds with one stone.

Terry d***s caused controversy over a number of public statements he made. His strong opposition to state funding for the arts inspired Labour MP Tony Banks to claim, in a February 1990 debate, that d***s' presence in the House of Commons was "living proof that a pig's bladder on a stick can get elected to Parliament".

In another arts funding debate in July that year, his remarks were controversial enough for fellow Conservative MP Patrick Cormack, to state “This man is a disgrace to the House of Commons”. d***s then replied “My hon. Friend reminds me of Henry VIII not with all the doublet and hose, but at least well fed”.

On Derrick Gregory, a mentally subnormal man who had been sentenced to death in Malaysia for drug smuggling, d***s said he would be writing to the Malaysian government congratulating it on its decision.

On Farzad Bazoft, an Observer journalist hanged by Saddam Hussein in 1990, d***s said he "deserves to be hanged" on the eve of his execution.

In 1990, when Nelson Mandela declined to meet the then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher on a trip to London, d***s asked: "How much longer will the Prime Minister allow herself to be kicked in the face by this black terrorist?"

d***s lost his seat in the Labour landslide GE of 1997 but Brexit has turned this seat back into a cesspit of right wing extremism again.



* for non-Brits among us, it's near Heathrow

Read your comment to yourself slowly then ask what you and your chattering class mates have been doing for the last few years.

The Brexit voters won, Jen. You and your chattering mates lost. Now you are all trying to overthrow democracy.

And I agree with you, Jen. The decision of the people should be respected. I'd say the same if the remoaners won, but they didn't.

Incidentally, what did you think of John "The s***weasel" Sweeney being the scapegoat for the BBC getting caught out trying to run yet another hit-piece on Tommy Robinson? I loved it. Watching David take on Goliath and win never gets old. It's rare that the chatterers pay for their propaganda and seeing his attempts to lie get exposed was beautiful to watch.

If you have not seen that documentary ("Panodrama" it's called), I can not recommend it highly enough. You might even learn something about the extent to which the media you mindlessly parrot is full of s***.

Ouch. Guess he’ll not be receiving a Christmas card this year?

Stephen Yaxley-Who...?

Not heard of him since he came out of prison. What a shame they let him out.

Past his sell by date. Not relevant. Never was. Just a mindless thug playing at "I Can Pretend To Be A Journalist" games as a cover for being nothing more than a football yob.

And Luton Town are s***e.

Still, must go.... I've got some chattering to do. Toodle pip.

Meanwhile, in the real world.......

Uber Brexiter, Chancellor of the Exchequer and part-time Addams Family Uncle Fester stunt double Sajid Javid has had an article he wrote back in 2016 dug out from the archives of the Indy.

Very interesting.....

Being In The EU Enables Britain To Negotiate From A Position Of Strength, Says Sajid Javid

Snip from the article..... yes, the Brexit Ultra actually said this...

One of the advantages of EU membership is that we get to negotiate wider and deeper trade deals from a position of strength. If we leave the boot will be on the other foot - and that will put Britain at a serious disadvantage

I wonder what might have made the former run-of-the-bill backbench MP change his mind. Surely the offer to become a senior minister, head of one of the key offices of state couldn't have had anything to do with it..?

Laura Keunssberg, the BBC's Political Editor has been showing how biased against Brexit she is again.



Or we could have this one......




Or even this one......




Of course, the BBC is biased towards remain. Of course it is.

What has any of this got to do with Brexit..?

To suggest I would allow my own family to suffer is an offence too far. You have sunk to a new low, if that were possible. You really are one of the lowest forms of filth it has ever been my displeasure to encounter.... and I've had Nazis like you - literally - in my face, in the past.

You are nothing more than an Islamophobic hypocrite. Your faux outrage is nothing more than a cover for racism and right-wing extremism. You make me laugh. And to suggest that I would stand by an allow anything to happen to my family is the worst kind of attempt to insult and inflame. I'm just not buying it.

You're a pathetic little Nazi pretending to care for others as a cover to peddle your agenda of hatred towards people of a specific race and religion that you despise.

Don't pretend to me that you care about children. I think you would happily stand by and allow anything to happen to children.... as long as they came from Muslim families. You'd probably stand by and laugh while it happened. That's if you weren't joining in.

Get the hell off this thread you nasty little bigot. It's a thread for discussion on Brexit, not a platform for your narrow minded fanaticism.

I am a pacifist and a campaigner for peace and liberty among all races, creeds and faiths. I would see nobody - not even your repugnant Yaxley-Lennon, suffer any form of injury or hurt. I believe in respect for the dignity, peace and safety of all. Even Nazis have the right to live. There..... You don't get more pacifist than that...!!!

I also believe in the rule of law and I put my trust and confidence in the law of the land to prosecute those who offend against ANYBODY, be they young or old, white or black, straight or gay, or of whatever faith they subscribe to... if any at all. I make no exceptions and plead no special case for anybody. All are equal. We are all subject to the law.

And we are all entitled to the protection of the law and that includes anybody being unlawfully harassed, hounded and discriminated against by the kind of vile filth to whom you are in such thrall.


Stop trying to provoke me with propaganda and warped words. I know you for what you are you scummy little hatemonger.

This is a thread to discuss Brexit. Now get lost and find another forum because this one isn't standing for your bulls***.

Of course I am, Jen. All Nazis seek to protect kids from abusers.

Do you really think calling me a Nazi means anything? You're hilarious.

Anybody wanna commemorative coin to celebrate leaving the EU on <cough. 31 October....?



The treasury will neither confirm nor deny that millions of these commemorative coins have been minted in readiness for the Hallowe'en Horror.

Rumour has it that distribution to banks for issuing on the day has been halted.

Why would that be...? Aren't we leaving on 31 October..? Surely we are.

Boris said so.

The British public considers Boris Johnson's options