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Leon On December 21, 2023




San Diego, California
#1New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 22:36:02
In the 80’s...

I never did it, but I can remember a few instances where a classmate or two might have done it at one time or another for a Halloween character or some skit. In the 80’s it wasn’t all that uncommon really. I honestly really don’t think the intention was to offend people more than it was just done for the humor.

Were people offended? Perhaps that is a question to ask blacks who were around at the time, but it seems to me all the fight was directed at more severe racism, such as what was once occurring in the south, as we were still just fresh from the Civil Rights movement and the segregation laws that were eradicated at that time.

Today it is obviously a different story, and would be read as such, but was it insensitive back then?

Or are we too over offended these days? Sometimes I do think that dialing down on the Offense-Meter might be a better way to eradicate racist attitudes.
DiscordTiger On December 04, 2021
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#2New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 22:48:41
I don't know it has always been thought of as offensive, and not really done anymore for as long as I can remember, and I remember most of the 80's. I mean, it was offensive the times it was done the first time, (minstrel shows) the difference was black Americans didn't have the rights to really do much about it. Being vocal in being offended, pretty much lead to lynching rather than someone calling you snowflake, like what happens now.

ETA: and I did grow up in a place in the 80's that wasn't particularly "friendly" to black folk. Like interracial dating, and even some fraternizing were looked at as being questionable. But still, blackface was not common.
Leon On December 21, 2023




San Diego, California
#3New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 22:52:52
@DiscordTiger Said

I don't know it has always been thought of as offensive, and not really done anymore for as long as I can remember, and I remember most of the 80's. I mean, it was offensive the times it was done the first time, (minstrel shows) the difference was black Americans didn't have the rights to really do much about it. Being vocal in being offended, pretty much lead to lynching rather than someone calling you snowflake, like what happens now.


True, but what I remember in my school was someone dressing up as Aunt Jemima or some rapper for the lols on Halloween. I think that might have been different than what you describe. But maybe I’m wrong and don’t realize the hurt it caused.

One thing for sure is whenever the media goes full on like this, it’s probably best to at least ask a black person’s opinion. Especially someone who was around then if we are talking about the past..
DiscordTiger On December 04, 2021
The Queen of Random

Administrator




Emerald City, United States (g
#4New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 23:19:30
@Leon Said

True, but what I remember in my school was someone dressing up as Aunt Jemima or some rapper for the lols on Halloween. I think that might have been different than what you describe. But maybe I’m wrong and don’t realize the hurt it caused.

One thing for sure is whenever the media goes full on like this, it’s probably best to at least ask a black person’s opinion. Especially someone who was around then if we are talking about the past..



I do remember what we now think of offensive halloween costums, but those were all pretty much in the "native american" category. No one gave a s*** back then. Which, i'm sure it probably hurt then too, but people either didn't know or didn't care. (or we as a people were super effective when our ancestors killed and moved off the real native americans off to reservations, where we were trying to teach the savage outta them. So if they spoke up, even as late as the 80's consequences were pretty severe.

The 80's were not a particularly "woke" time, to use today's vernacular.

honestly, i don't understand the "oh well let's ask a black person" thing.
Mostly because I know from being a fellow brown person, the "oh let's ask a Hispanic" thing gets f***ing old, f***ing fast. and to most people I tend to respond "what kind of white s*** is that?." especially as I get older and give less f***s. Though I will say, since I know you from here, you are trying to understand rather than start s*** and troll. and I get how do you learn if you don't ask concept, just the emotional labor of teaching is hard. I put in the effort for people I like or I know are trying, but some that want to start s***, I'm like f*** that, im not even getting involved in that dumpsterf***.

From what I see in the all my online and in person interactions with all POC its the same. The emotional labor is there, regardless of what ethnicity/color you happen to be when talking about diversity and inclusion issues. (I've become pretty active in the DEI area for work, and the on-line and in person resources and connections that come with that.)

Though I guess with modern social media, black twitter seems to not like blackface, so that's pretty much a good enough reason for me to disavow it completely, rather than pointedly asking someone. Now that is also not to say I haven't had black people bring it up first and say that s*** ain't cool, never was. so maybe that influences my opinion now and not needing to ask again.

There are a few TFS members that are black that would remember the 80's, not sure if they are still around though.
chaski On about 14 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#5New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 23:33:13
@Leon Said

it’s probably best to at least ask a black person’s opinion. Especially someone who was around then if we are talking about the past..



Darkman666 On March 27, 2024




Saint Louis, Missouri
#6New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 23:35:23
I have told this before as twilite, in the 70's, when I was staff. one night, we in front of the lodge, we had skit night.

I think I was a staff or a camper, I can't remember, in front of the boy's camp. me and my three buddies decided to blackfaced our faces and singed " shortbread ".

everybody thought it really funny, even the old black couple, who were cooks. I was laughing at us. the couple know me over five years personally, they know we didn't mean about it.

if kids about ten are younger that blackface in a skit in a mix audience, probably wouldn't offend anyone now. it is still wrong to it on any form. these days, blackface seem more " politically incorrect " than being offend.
chaski On about 14 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#7New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 23:39:37
Seems like what we have going on is:

A. If a democrats/liberals do "it" they are bad and should resign. If a person is/was guilty in the past, that person is guilty now, forever, always... the only response can be to resign.

B. If a republican/conservative does "it", that republican/conservative responds in a series of ways...

1st... deny
2nd... complain about leftists being over the top PC
3rd... cry and whine that the MSM has destroyed your life
4th... do not resign
5th... cry and whine that the MSM has destroyed your life
nooneinparticular On March 16, 2023




, Hawaii
#8New Post! Feb 11, 2019 @ 23:44:28
@Leon Said

In the 80’s...

I never did it, but I can remember a few instances where a classmate or two might have done it at one time or another for a Halloween character or some skit. In the 80’s it wasn’t all that uncommon really. I honestly really don’t think the intention was to offend people more than it was just done for the humor.

Were people offended? Perhaps that is a question to ask blacks who were around at the time, but it seems to me all the fight was directed at more severe racism, such as what was once occurring in the south, as we were still just fresh from the Civil Rights movement and the segregation laws that were eradicated at that time.

Today it is obviously a different story, and would be read as such, but was it insensitive back then?


Personally, looking back over other things like the Satanic Panic, I honestly don't think we as a country have changed much when it comes to 'getting offended and doing something about it'. Different song, same beat.

Quote:

Or are we too over offended these days? Sometimes I do think that dialing down on the Offense-Meter might be a better way to eradicate racist attitudes.


Discourse is always populated by a wide variety of voices, from the calm to the enraged. I say that if we required only calm voices to get anywhere or reach any decision we'd still be in mud huts trying to figure out how not to die at the age of 20.
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#9New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 01:25:57
@Leon Said

Or are we too over offended these days? Sometimes I do think that dialing down on the Offense-Meter might be a better way to eradicate racist attitudes.


And if I'm not directly offended by something, I can be offended for someone else and scream and holler for justice for them.

If the Ramones were still performing these days, they'd re-write their song as "I wanna be Offended!"

And to your point - yes, there are the asstards that keep up the offending activities because it gets such reaction.
Erimitus On July 01, 2021




The mind of God, Antarctica
#10New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 02:10:40
@Leon Said

In the 80’s...

I never did it, but I can remember a few instances where a classmate or two might have done it at one time or another for a Halloween character or some skit. In the 80’s it wasn’t all that uncommon really. I honestly really don’t think the intention was to offend people more than it was just done for the humor.

Were people offended? Perhaps that is a question to ask blacks who were around at the time, but it seems to me all the fight was directed at more severe racism, such as what was once occurring in the south, as we were still just fresh from the Civil Rights movement and the segregation laws that were eradicated at that time.

Today it is obviously a different story, and would be read as such, but was it insensitive back then?

Or are we too over offended these days? Sometimes I do think that dialing down on the Offense-Meter might be a better way to eradicate racist attitudes.



I don't understand why it is offencive.
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#11New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 02:25:18
@Erimitus Said

I don't understand why it is offencive.


CNN

Al Jolson performed in blackface in "The Jazz Singer," a hit film in 1927, and American actors like Shirley Temple, Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney put on blackface in movies too.

Well, if that's the case, they should have all of their awards revoked, burn all of their films (not just the black-face one's), and never mention their names again.

They shall disappear with the many that are known only as "Those who shalt not be named"
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#12New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 13:28:44
@Leon Said

One thing for sure is whenever the media goes full on like this, it’s probably best to at least ask a black person’s opinion. Especially someone who was around then if we are talking about the past..



@chaski Said



It's a phenomenon I've noticed, and maybe it's always been this way and I'm just recently noticing, that there are few in the public eye who appear more offended than those who are virtue-signaling and being offended on behalf of someone else.
restoreone On January 30, 2022




, Ohio
#13New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 14:21:34
@Leon Said

In the 80’s...

I never did it, but I can remember a few instances where a classmate or two might have done it at one time or another for a Halloween character or some skit. In the 80’s it wasn’t all that uncommon really. I honestly really don’t think the intention was to offend people more than it was just done for the humor.

Were people offended? Perhaps that is a question to ask blacks who were around at the time, but it seems to me all the fight was directed at more severe racism, such as what was once occurring in the south, as we were still just fresh from the Civil Rights movement and the segregation laws that were eradicated at that time.

Today it is obviously a different story, and would be read as such, but was it insensitive back then?

Or are we too over offended these days? Sometimes I do think that dialing down on the Offense-Meter might be a better way to eradicate racist attitudes.

People just did not give a s*** if it made a buck then it was ok. Think Silver Streak Gene Wilder appered in Blackface with his costar Richard Pryor. Then there was Soul Man the NAACP came out against it yet it made a nice profit. The word just did not get out like it does today. Hell even into the 90's they were doing Blackface Think Ted Dancea and Whoopi Goldberg. Finally enough was enough.
mrmhead On March 27, 2024




NE, Ohio
#14New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 15:06:44
@restoreone Said

People just did not give a s*** if it made a buck then it was ok. Think Silver Streak Gene Wilder appered in Blackface with his costar Richard Pryor. Then there was Soul Man the NAACP came out against it yet it made a nice profit. The word just did not get out like it does today. Hell even into the 90's they were doing Blackface Think Ted Dancea and Whoopi Goldberg. Finally enough was enough.


I was just thinking about Soul Man and this thread - The movie where the kid takes some drug to make him look black so he can get a minority scholarship.

I thought in the end it had a message - "Don't Do That" (he got the scholarship instead of a single mother working her way through college)
Leon On December 21, 2023




San Diego, California
#15New Post! Feb 12, 2019 @ 16:26:12
@DiscordTiger Said

I do remember what we now think of offensive halloween costums, but those were all pretty much in the "native american" category. No one gave a s*** back then. Which, i'm sure it probably hurt then too, but people either didn't know or didn't care. (or we as a people were super effective when our ancestors killed and moved off the real native americans off to reservations, where we were trying to teach the savage outta them. So if they spoke up, even as late as the 80's consequences were pretty severe.

The 80's were not a particularly "woke" time, to use today's vernacular.


Yeah, forgot about the Indian thing. We were all admittedly doing it back then as kids right on up through the 70’s before Star Wars, and even for a time afterwards. Also, who hasn’t as a kid pretended to be Chinese? I think everyone knows what I’m referring to in terms of how we did that.

Of course, none of that today would be tolerated.

@DiscordTiger Said
honestly, i don't understand the "oh well let's ask a black person" thing.
Mostly because I know from being a fellow brown person, the "oh let's ask a Hispanic" thing gets f***ing old, f***ing fast. and to most people I tend to respond "what kind of white s*** is that?." especially as I get older and give less f***s. Though I will say, since I know you from here, you are trying to understand rather than start s*** and troll. and I get how do you learn if you don't ask concept, just the emotional labor of teaching is hard. I put in the effort for people I like or I know are trying, but some that want to start s***, I'm like f*** that, im not even getting involved in that dumpsterf***.

From what I see in the all my online and in person interactions with all POC its the same. The emotional labor is there, regardless of what ethnicity/color you happen to be when talking about diversity and inclusion issues. (I've become pretty active in the DEI area for work, and the on-line and in person resources and connections that come with that.)


I understand, and can see how that would feel if I were asked to answer for all white people. I certainly don’t have any reason to delegitimize what you’re saying. But my point was just that if the media is going to constantly talk about it and go around with endless opinion and commentary over it, at least involve people who supposedly would be the victims themselves in the discussion. I don’t think they are doing that enough over just expressing outrage for them instead. Outrage seems to be the new currency of legitimacy.

@DiscordTiger Said
Though I guess with modern social media, black twitter seems to not like blackface, so that's pretty much a good enough reason for me to disavow it completely, rather than pointedly asking someone. Now that is also not to say I haven't had black people bring it up first and say that s*** ain't cool, never was. so maybe that influences my opinion now and not needing to ask again.

There are a few TFS members that are black that would remember the 80's, not sure if they are still around though.


Today, yes. Because we have been taught that it is something that is negative. And, indeed, now that we are all aware of it, it probably is the case for anyone who does it anyways despite that. This is because, once someone knows it might offend, it should result in that person to second guess doing it, if even thinking about doing it at all.

However, intentions were perhaps more naive back then and I’m saying that perhaps blacks back then recognized the harmless intention of those who did it and who otherwise were not racists at all, and it therefore had a much less effect.

It’s easy to project today’s feelings on yesterday, but harder to try and recapture the feelings of yesterday on yesterday.
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