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Bachmann right about minimum wage

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Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#16New Post! Jul 05, 2011 @ 19:39:05
how about a cap that capitalists can ern?
might free up money for the minimum wage jobs.
steve70 On March 20, 2021




, United Kingdom
#17New Post! Jul 05, 2011 @ 19:44:21
hoppy On August 27, 2013




,
#18New Post! Jul 05, 2011 @ 20:04:32
@Willi Said

how about a cap that capitalists can ern?
might free up money for the minimum wage jobs.



That would only drive more business out of the country, IMO.
boxerdc On December 18, 2012

Deleted



,
#19New Post! Jul 05, 2011 @ 23:33:48
Who here honestly thinks that a lower wage would actually cause businesses to hire more people? Who here is actually that stupid?

Everyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that if the minimum wage was removed, companies would just pay the bottom tier of their workers even less, and expect the same amount of work from them.. All so they could reap more profits.
Willi On August 21, 2018




northinmind,
#20New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 04:31:04
@hoppy Said

That would only drive more business out of the country, IMO.

think getting rid of minimum wage will get rid of the poor people?

i hear you, ez to go open a company in another country and funnal money that way too.

was a time a 55 hour week was normal.
El_Tino On October 12, 2023
booyaka!





Albuquerque, New Mexico
#21New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 06:27:23
Business aren't as against the minimum wage as you might think. After all, when people get paid more what do they do with that money? They go spend it at businesses.
magically_delicious On October 27, 2020




, California
#22New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 07:19:23
I wouldn't be against lowering minimum wage to stimulate rehiring. I believe we're at 9% unemployment right now nationwide? And that's not counting the under-employed or the unemployed that are not actively searching for work but would if they felt jobs were available. I live in an area where the unemployment rate hovers around 18%, with an estimated 22% actually unemployed. It would be REALLY great if more people could get some work instead of no work at all. Crime rates are high and the section 8 and housing voucher waiting lists are closed. The under-educated/skilled need something to live off of, lowering the minimum wage (although not removing it) could help soften some of the blow to the lower class.
hoppy On August 27, 2013




,
#23New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 09:53:56
Then we have these people.

https://townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/2011/07/06/all_the_presidents_high-paid_engagers
someone_else On August 30, 2012
Not a dude.


Deleted



American Alps, Washington
#24New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 15:34:54
@hoppy Said

Then we have these people.

https://townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/2011/07/06/all_the_presidents_high-paid_engagers



The funny thing about highly paid people is that they spend their money and probably keep more people working in service jobs. Weird how that works huh?
nooneinparticular On March 16, 2023




, Hawaii
#25New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 18:24:26
@nooneinparticular Said

But, wouldn't the reverse hold equally true?

If for instance, we reduce minimum wages to increase the amount of jobs, what good will that do? If we reduce minimum wage, or get rid of it, and people 'are not meant to support a family on' minimum wage jobs, then reducing payment of these jobs that people are currently relying on will force these people back into the job market to look for more jobs to offset the lessened amount of money they are receiving per paycheck.

If we measure the amount of jobs as equal to the amount of money saved, (since this model makes no sense otherwise) then the job market should, theoretically, see little to no change in the ratio between people with jobs and people without.

Of course, if that does not end up being the case, and still assuming that amount of money saved = jobs created, then that would mean that more people have jobs that you can't support a family on, resulting in a higher number of people below the poverty line.


Can anyone give me feedback on this analysis please?
drman321 On December 28, 2013




, Florida
#26New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 18:31:04
@magically_delicious Said

I wouldn't be against lowering minimum wage to stimulate rehiring. I believe we're at 9% unemployment right now nationwide? And that's not counting the under-employed or the unemployed that are not actively searching for work but would if they felt jobs were available. I live in an area where the unemployment rate hovers around 18%, with an estimated 22% actually unemployed. It would be REALLY great if more people could get some work instead of no work at all. Crime rates are high and the section 8 and housing voucher waiting lists are closed. The under-educated/skilled need something to live off of, lowering the minimum wage (although not removing it) could help soften some of the blow to the lower class.



Do you honestly think that a business will hire more people if they lowered the minimum wage? Walk me through the logic here. I run a business, if wages dropped I might consider lowering my assistant's wages (probably not though, she is damn good) but I'm not going to hire two people to do the work of one just because they are now cheaper. Lowering her wage would just add to my bottom line by taking from hers.
El_Tino On October 12, 2023
booyaka!





Albuquerque, New Mexico
#27New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 18:32:44
@nooneinparticular Said

Can anyone give me feedback on this analysis please?


Sounds about right
magically_delicious On October 27, 2020




, California
#28New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 22:54:33
@drman321 Said

Do you honestly think that a business will hire more people if they lowered the minimum wage? Walk me through the logic here. I run a business, if wages dropped I might consider lowering my assistant's wages (probably not though, she is damn good) but I'm not going to hire two people to do the work of one just because they are now cheaper. Lowering her wage would just add to my bottom line by taking from hers.



I thought it was a pretty readily accepted economic idea that lowering minimum wage would result in more unskilled workers being hired, and more importantly, less people being laid off. I believe this concept can be described as an elasticity of demand function, where as the wage increases, demand for unskilled workers decreases. I say unskilled because generally the minimum wage workers are under-educated, or right out of college or high school. I learned this in microeconomics class, and unemployment is explained this way (right next to the unemployment elasticity graph) in a text book I own by Paul Krugman, who publishes articles in the New York Times and won a Nobel Prize in Economics, so I'm really just regurgitating his ideas.

All that aside, I don't need a graph to know this makes sense. You have to look at different business models to see it in action, but I'll use a personal example first. I used to manage a feed store that had 23 employees, and most people were paid a few dollars above minimum wage, and worked 42 hours a week. We were always understaffed in the yard, but it took awhile to train new yard workers where all the different grains were located and the business was barely breaking even. Many times people were left waiting in the store for help because I would have to leave the counter to help the guys retrieve grain, so obviously output could be improved by more workers. By lowering our wages 2 dollars each (which also lowers his taxes), the owner would have been able to justify hiring the extra yard guy, and I'm sure he would have since we needed him but couldn't afford him. The yard guy would have made up for his wages by increasing the output of the business, and decreasing the number of unhappy customers who went elsewhere.

The same principle could apply to a Strawberry farmer, maybe he has 40 guys out there working for minimum wage but could increase his output by hiring another 10 workers. Lowering 40 workers wages by 2 dollars each would more than allow for the extra 10 workers to be hired on, and increase the productivity of the strawberry farmer.

As you pointed out, this would not work for business who is already at their peak of productivity, because they do not need additional workers. However, I have seen many, many restaurants who are understaffed and would most likely hire on more workers if it would increase their productivity while offsetting the cost for employing them. Obviously businesses who are already close to letting people go would keep their employees if they could pay them less instead of firing them, especially if productivity would suffer by firing them.
boxerdc On December 18, 2012

Deleted



,
#29New Post! Jul 06, 2011 @ 23:25:15
@magically_delicious Said



All that aside, I don't need a graph to know this makes sense. You have to look at different business models to see it in action, but I'll use a personal example first. I used to manage a feed store that had 23 employees, and most people were paid a few dollars above minimum wage, and worked 42 hours a week. We were always understaffed in the yard, but it took awhile to train new yard workers where all the different grains were located and the business was barely breaking even. Many times people were left waiting in the store for help because I would have to leave the counter to help the guys retrieve grain, so obviously output could be improved by more workers. By lowering our wages 2 dollars each (which also lowers his taxes), the owner would have been able to justify hiring the extra yard guy, and I'm sure he would have since we needed him but couldn't afford him. The yard guy would have made up for his wages by increasing the output of the business, and decreasing the number of unhappy customers who went elsewhere.

The same principle could apply to a Strawberry farmer, maybe he has 40 guys out there working for minimum wage but could increase his output by hiring another 10 workers. Lowering 40 workers wages by 2 dollars each would more than allow for the extra 10 workers to be hired on, and increase the productivity of the strawberry farmer.

As you pointed out, this would not work for business who is already at their peak of productivity, because they do not need additional workers. However, I have seen many, many restaurants who are understaffed and would most likely hire on more workers if it would increase their productivity while offsetting the cost for employing them. Obviously businesses who are already close to letting people go would keep their employees if they could pay them less instead of firing them, especially if productivity would suffer by firing them.


It might work for small businesses, but it would not change the hiring practices of large employers. They would just pad their bottom line with the savings. Shareholders would certainly be happy though.
magically_delicious On October 27, 2020




, California
#30New Post! Jul 07, 2011 @ 00:17:12
@boxerdc Said

It might work for small businesses, but it would not change the hiring practices of large employers. They would just pad their bottom line with the savings. Shareholders would certainly be happy though.



I don't think large corporations would change much of anything. Again, all this depends upon productivity. I highly doubt any company would lessen the wages of its employees unless they had to. I don't believe lowering the minimum wage would result in this wave of employers suddenly decreasing their current employee's salaries, with the exception of agricultural businesses, seasonal employers, and employers who are in a bad financial state. I believe productivity is the bottom line. If you go and lower everyone's wages at McDonald's, a bunch of people are going to quit, become less productive, strike, or steal things. The business would not be padding their wallets, but instead face huge losses due to reduced revenue. If you keep the wages the same for current workers, productivity could increase, and new employees would be hired at the lower wages, which would save money and increase output. If a business will have increased productivity by having more workers, they will hire more workers if they can afford to do so.

I know CEO's are not stupid, there would be major union strikes and huge employee turnover if a company massively dropped all of their employee's wages. The idea is the unskilled worker with no work experience, very little work experience, non-native English speakers, etc., would be able to find a job instead of solely relying on welfare and savings. Increased capital causes increased spending, and it certainly seems like a better idea than sitting back and watching unemployment get worse.
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