Affirmative Action; Do you agree with it?

Tako_400

Keep Ya' Head Up

Deleted

Beirut, Lebanon

#31

Apr 07, 2010 @ 16:54:59

@someone_else Said

If you don't see it as racism then why are we arguing that it's not racism...?

I thought you thought it was.

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shinobinoz

Stnd w Standing Rock

Wichita, Kansas

#32

Apr 07, 2010 @ 16:55:41

@someone_else Said

Because I'm looking at specific pictures, where unqualified people are given jobs based on their minority status rather than their actual merit. Women are included in minorities and they are hardly a different race than men. That would make it NOT RACISM.

Again- unqualified individuals should not get looked at. What this is about is ensuring that qualified minorities and women as individuals stand a chance at landing a job.

If you go by seniority only, that leaves minorities out that have no experience in the field in question. Having a parent in the field helps their children be more knowledgeable about the job and keeps the door open for them. Thus it makes it difficult for minorities and women to break the glass ceilings and get a leg up.

Remember- it's a leg up, not a hand out.

1

someone_else

Not a dude.

Deleted

American Alps, Washington

#33

Apr 07, 2010 @ 16:56:03

@Tako_400 Said

I thought you thought it was.

No, I said it was discrimination. Not in all cases, just some.

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plebian_angel

Intergalactic hussy

a great future,

#34

Apr 07, 2010 @ 16:58:09

@Tako_400 Said

We need to help minorities out. Calling that racism is false. It's only racism if you favor one race over another. It's not racism if you try to equal out all races.

@shinobinoz Said

Again- unqualified individuals should not get looked at. What this is about is ensuring that qualified minorities and women as individuals stand a chance at landing a job.

If you go by seniority only, that leaves minorities out that have no experience in the field in question. Having a parent in the field helps their children be more knowledgeable about the job and keeps the door open for them. Thus it makes it difficult for minorities and women to break the glass ceilings and get a leg up.

Remember- it's a leg up, not a hand out.

You should earn a position by actually earning it..there should be no glass ceilings for ANY qualified person,but the most qualified should get the position no matter race, age, or sex.

1

someone_else

Not a dude.

Deleted

American Alps, Washington

#35

Apr 07, 2010 @ 16:58:31

@shinobinoz Said

Again- unqualified individuals should not get looked at. What this is about is ensuring that qualified minorities and women as individuals stand a chance at landing a job.

If you go by seniority only, that leaves minorities out that have no experience in the field in question. Having a parent in the field helps their children be more knowledgeable about the job and keeps the door open for them. Thus it makes it difficult for minorities and women to break the glass ceilings and get a leg up.

Remember- it's a leg up, not a hand out.

But see, that's what I'm talking about. There are businesses that hire unqualified people just because they are women or minorities.

The parent thing doesn't really fly for women btw, those women have the same parents as men do.

0

Tako_400

Keep Ya' Head Up

Deleted

Beirut, Lebanon

#36

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:03:12

@plebian_angel Said

You should earn a position by actually earning it..there should be no glass ceilings for ANY qualified person,but the most qualified should get the position no matter race, age, or sex.

I agree. If one race hadn't be stomped on, yeah, that would be the case. But that's not the case. There's a race that's down in the dirt, and if we expect it to stand up on it's own, it'll never be able to because there will always be the stronger race sitting up there taking in all the good stuff. We do not favor one race over the other. Not at all. We favor both equally, and that is why we have to do that.

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shinobinoz

Stnd w Standing Rock

Wichita, Kansas

#37

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:03:24

@someone_else Said

If you don't see it as racism then why are we arguing that it's not racism...?

It is not racism. Racism is the thought that one race is inherently better than another. Racism is seeing that another race is kept down at the benefit of the dominate race.
Affirmative action does none of this.
Are there cases where it was used wrongly? Definately. But that is extreme isolated events, nothing like racist policies in the past or even entrenched institutional racism that still exists today.
It is getting much, much better however thanks to affirmative action and changing societal beliefs.

1

Kristy69

Carly's Mommy

Underneath the Cyanide Sun....

#38

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:05:10

@Tako_400 Said

We need to help minorities out. Calling that racism is false. It's only racism if you favor one race over another. It's not racism if you try to equal out all races.

So putting a lesser qualified candidate in a position that a non-minority worked their butt off for it and rightly deserve it is perfectly fair, then right?

There are a TON of minorities who have made it big.
The head of the Board of Education in my county is a black man (whom I respect a lot).

MY PRESIDENT IS BLACK.

Everyone can make it regardless of race.
Anyone who says otherwise is speaking bull.

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shinobinoz

Stnd w Standing Rock

Wichita, Kansas

#39

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:06:07

@plebian_angel Said

You should earn a position by actually earning it..there should be no glass ceilings for ANY qualified person,but the most qualified should get the position no matter race, age, or sex.

Most qualified is subjective. How do you know?
Test taking?
Social Skills?
Proven ability to overcome adversity?

I'd say all the above. But then I've been on panels where as a group we chose wrong.
Subjective.

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Kristy69

Carly's Mommy

Underneath the Cyanide Sun....

#40

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:08:26

@fitzyp Said

Its not really about under the table discrimination so much as it is about historical discrimination against minorities.

The point of the cartoon is that large amounts of minority groups are economically behind because they have been historically discriminated against and today people think that trying to give certain minority groups a hand up is reverse discrimination.

Bull s***.
I'm a woman and we didn't have equal rights in the past either but I'm not asking to be put ahead of more qualified people.
Why? Because I wasn't around when women didn't have equal rights, so I don't really care.

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Tako_400

Keep Ya' Head Up

Deleted

Beirut, Lebanon

#41

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:08:44

@Kristy69 Said

So putting a lesser qualified candidate in a position that a non-minority worked their butt off for it and rightly deserve it is perfectly fair, then right?

There are a TON of minorities who have made it big.
The head of the Board of Education in my county is a black man (whom I respect a lot).

MY PRESIDENT IS BLACK.

Everyone can make it regardless of race.
Anyone who says otherwise is speaking bull.

I never denied that there were many prestigious minorities. However when you look at the average person from each race, you can see a big difference. Compare the number of black Americans to the number of white Americans that live in slums, that have crap jobs, and that end up in jail. There's a big difference and it must be addressed. Not helping either might seem like the right thing to do because it strictly avoids all accusations of racism, but it's not. And making both races is equal is not racism either.

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Kristy69

Carly's Mommy

Underneath the Cyanide Sun....

#42

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:09:43

@shinobinoz Said

Proven ability to overcome adversity?

So because black people had enslaved ancestors they all have a "proven ability to overcome adversity"?

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shinobinoz

Stnd w Standing Rock

Wichita, Kansas

#43

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:10:20

@Kristy69 Said

So putting a lesser qualified candidate in a position that a non-minority worked their butt off for it and rightly deserve it is perfectly fair, then right?

There are a TON of minorities who have made it big.
The head of the Board of Education in my county is a black man (whom I respect a lot).

MY PRESIDENT IS BLACK.

Everyone can make it regardless of race.
Anyone who says otherwise is speaking bull.

You are young. I'm afraid you just don't know how things work.
It is much much much better than it has been, but that does not make things equal yet. Discrimination and lack of resources still exist and until things are more equal there remains a need to ensure equal access.
NOTE I've never stated reverse racism or hiring unqualified. Just equal opportunity to excel.

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plebian_angel

Intergalactic hussy

a great future,

#44

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:10:24

@shinobinoz Said

Most qualified is subjective. How do you know?
Test taking?
Social Skills?
Proven ability to overcome adversity?

I'd say all the above. But then I've been on panels where as a group we chose wrong.
Subjective.

For my position you need to be proficient in Microsoft Office and have basic progamming knowledge. And you need at least a 2 year degree.
Let's start there.

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shinobinoz

Stnd w Standing Rock

Wichita, Kansas

#45

Apr 07, 2010 @ 17:14:15

@Kristy69 Said

So because black people had enslaved ancestors they all have a "proven ability to overcome adversity"?

Funny how that statement becomes an historical race issue at the drop of a hat.
Did I state that?
Can any individual show a "proven ability to overcome adversity"?

Compare that to a rich kid that has had everything handed to them in life- including all doors being held wide-open to them.
Are they more deserving than one with lesser grade point average that forced their way out of the slums?

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