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shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#2041New Post! Apr 19, 2021 @ 16:14:47
The idea of a ESL has been around for years and has usually been touted by the big clubs in order to ensure not only more revenue as a whole but a greater share of that revenue for themselves. This time around however things seem to be more serious. Many of the owners are American where teams seem to be treated simply as franchises. It's all about making as much money as you can. This is why they don't like a set up that involves promotion and relegation. They want the financial certainty that comes when you have a competition whereby teams can't be relegated.

Anyway, at the moment it's a case of watch this space. Fair to say I hope a ESL never materialises and if it does I hope the relevant governing bodies take the strongest action against these rebel clubs that the law allows.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#2042New Post! Apr 19, 2021 @ 16:51:20
"I'm a Manchester United fan for 40 years and have been for most of my life, but I'm disgusted. Absolutely disgusted. Manchester United, 100 years, born out of workers around here and they are breaking away to a league without competition, that they can't be relegated from? We have to wrestle back the power in this country from the clubs at the top of this league … It's pure greed."
- Gary Neville
mrmhead On about 5 hours ago




NE, Ohio
#2043New Post! Apr 19, 2021 @ 18:32:34
Would they still play other clubs? Not much of a schedule, or season if there is only 6 teams.
mrmhead On about 5 hours ago




NE, Ohio
#2044New Post! Apr 20, 2021 @ 19:27:06
@mrmhead Said

Would they still play other clubs? Not much of a schedule, or season if there is only 6 teams.



OK - I read a bit more. It's 6 from UK plus another 6 to start. And then there was mention of an "eventual 20 teams"
Jennifer1984 On June 04, 2021
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#2045New Post! Apr 21, 2021 @ 13:57:26
@mrmhead Said

OK - I read a bit more. It's 6 from UK plus another 6 to start. And then there was mention of an "eventual 20 teams"



The whole thing is dead in the water now. It's been killed by fan resistance and the opposition of people like Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher via Sky Sports.

OK... so it was going to work like this: There were the initial 12 clubs named on Sunday. 6 from England, 3 from Italy and 3 from Spain. It was expected that three more would be named this week (but that won't happen now). That would make up a core 15 "Founder Clubs" who would be ringfenced into the league, effectively as a franchise operation. It was intended that every season, five more clubs in Europe would be invited to join. The selection would be based on how they performed in their parent (national) league in the previous season.*

There would be a home and away round robin system, played in midweek during the regular season which would allow the clubs to play in their parent league at weekends. The ESL would replace participation in the UEFA Champions League which, at the moment is the pinnacle of the game in Europe.

The major problem arose over qualification. The 15 ringfenced clubs would have automatic qualification every season, reaping vast financial benefits that were expected to be way, way beyond what is currently available via the Champions League. Thus, they would become vastly richer and able to attract all the best players with huge wages. These clubs would then become totally dominant in their parent leagues, permanently rendering the other 14 Premier League clubs helpless to compete.

In 2016, Leicester City... a minor club from the East Midlands... won the Premier League against all the odds, following Blackburn Rovers who did the same in 1995. Both clubs were way outside the elite but they battled their way to the top prize and won the admiration of the entire English football community.

And this is what the objections are really all about. This European league, and the consequences of it on the Premier League would render it impossible for a Blackburn Rovers or Leicester City, or anybody else, to compete for the top honours ever again. They could have no aspiration.

If they ever produced a highly talented player, he could be immediately lured away by an ESL club who could pay wages no other club could hope to compete with.

This was all about money. The club owners cooked this up without any consultation with coaches, managers, players or fans. They saw the vast money making opportunities and went for it.

Now it lies in tatters.

Last night, Manchester City decided to drop out. Chelsea also said they intended to do likewise, but City gave formal written notice that they were withdrawing first. That triggered the other five English clubs to announce their decision to withdraw.

It's possible that the project could still go ahead, but it could hardly call itself "Super" without the participation of Premier League clubs. Bayern Munich of Germany and Paris St Germaine (France) had previously said they weren't interested. Without the elite clubs from England, Germany and France it would be a sham competition. So I think it will be either dropped or the money men will have to go away and have a serious re-think about how to promote it in another format.

They'll have a job on their hands. English fans have rejected the entire thing completely and utterly. I don't think any plan would be welcomed here, likewise Germany and France. Spain and Italy can go ahead if they want. Perhaps they can call it "The Latin League." But I don't think it would have the same global appeal.

This has been killed stone dead.



*The invitation five would be nothing more than making up the numbers. If they accepted the invitation they would know they would be relegated out of it at the end of the season because no matter how well they performed. They would have to make way for next season's invitation five. What's the point of competing in a league that you cannot possibly win, and are guaranteed to be relegated from regardless of performance..? It's a mockery of sporting competition.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#2046New Post! Apr 23, 2021 @ 15:03:49
One good thing that may come out of the SL fiasco is a robust eview into the governance of football in England (and hopefully the rest of the UK). It seems very clear that the current owners' and directors' test is not fit for purpose. It also seems very clear that there needs to be an independent football regulator.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#2047New Post! Apr 26, 2021 @ 16:45:26
Will wait and see what punishment is meted out to the 'big six'. Hopefully the punishment is proportional and therefore significant though i won't hold my breath.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#2048New Post! Apr 26, 2021 @ 16:54:38
Hopefully Connah's Quay can end the dominance of TNS.
Jennifer1984 On June 04, 2021
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#2049New Post! Apr 29, 2021 @ 09:43:35
Much to the irritation of Manchester United fans, the expected trouncing of City by Mbappe, Di Maria and Neymar didn't happen last night. Di Maria had a good twenty minutes then faded, Mbappe didn't get a kick.... Diaz had him sewn up.... and Neymar was reduced to his usual stunt when he can't do as he pleases... he pretended he was mortally wounded every time he got tackled.

PSG started well and scored a good goal from a corner but that was as good as it got. For all their possession and hard running, Ederson wasn't overly worked. Ruben Diaz really has been an inspired signing for City.

This City team doesn't dazzle like others have in the last ten years. But they keep possession and by making the ball do all the work, they wear the legs of their opponents down. Chasing the ball back and forth, left to right is tiring and this has been particularly telling in the way both Dortmund in both legs of the Quarter Final, and PSG last night, tired significantly in the last quarter of the game. City still looked relatively fresh.

Opponents go hard at City in the first half these days, which is why they are going behind to teams like Leeds, Villa, Dortmund and PGS...... and it's why they've been able to come back in the second half. Leeds got away with it. The others didn't.

PSG now need to score at least twice at Eastlands next week and prevent City scoring. That won't be an easy task if they can't get the ball. And City are very, very good at keeping it.


I picked this up from a City forum on Facebook this morning. It made me laugh.

Leon On about 2 hours ago




San Diego, California
#2050New Post! May 03, 2021 @ 01:27:42
Local buyers who can match the top offer should be given the first rights in purchasing a team, and, if one cannot match, any outside buyer should be required to sign a binding agreement of a permanent commitment to the current locale as a condition of purchase.

Otherwise, this will not end. My city experienced it firsthand and the NFL is still suffering from a PR perspective as a result.
Jennifer1984 On June 04, 2021
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#2051New Post! May 04, 2021 @ 21:50:53
This isn't NFL, Leon. This is Association Football, with a 160 year history and we take it damned seriously. There was a fans "protest" at Old Trafford, home of Manchester United on Sunday calling for the Glazer brothers to sell the club. The Glazers have never been popular with the fans at the best of times, but the ESL was a step too far. But let's consider what this is really all about.

The Football League had run English club football since 1888. It had it's faults but basically, it worked well. But Manchester United didn't like it. By 1990, they hadn't won the league for 23 years.

Manchester Utd used their influence to abolish the historical Football League agreement that match income gate revenue would be shared. This arrangement had lasted over 100 years. Imagine doing that? What kind of football club would do that? Imagine the financial impact that had on smaller clubs? Utd wanted money and they got it. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

United floated on the New York stock exchange (No, not the London Stock Exchange, not enough share value there for them) Several more share issues after that too. Greedy and self serving. United wanted money and they got it. Millions & millions. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

Manchester Utd threatened The Football League with breakaway leagues several times in the 80's and early 90's before they (and in truth, it was Utd who ensured it happened) created the Premier League. For what...vastly more revenue, that's what. The creation of the Premier League was always about money and Utd were the main instigators. Utd wanted money and they got it. Millions and millions at the expense of nearly all other English football clubs. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

United attempted to form a breakaway Euro Super League (sound familiar?) in the early 90's. The result was...The Champions League. For what? You guessed it...increased TV revenue that smaller clubs could only dream of and never see. United wanted money and they got it alright. Millions and millions from the creation of the Champions League. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

The creation of the Champions League and the Premier League led to the Sky Big Four. Remember that load of rubbish? United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea. The result? A massive cosy stash of cash (millions and millions) each and every season. The result...? Utd spending what they wanted when they wanted on the most expensive players. The result? Premier League domination...and more and more money. A closed shop. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

The new Champions League format "needed protecting" so that the same clubs qualified year in year out. So boring and so predictable. But the TV and prize money was so huge that the Rags needed protection. The result..? was the emergence of the G14 cartel group of the biggest football clubs in Europe. Guess who was involved from the very beginning? Go on, guess.

Utd were the main instigators of football club global merchandising. Rubbish products, Mark Bosnic duvet covers, FFS...!! Manchester United flip flops, United theme bars in India, Singapore, Malaysia, America. tat and tack for quick cash...Sold the soul of a football club. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

On the back of all this “financially doped” revenue, Utd won a treble in 1999. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

UK football clubs used to have souvenir shops. Homely little places of gems & wonder. Then along came the Manchester United megastore. Full of any old rubbish with the United logo ($) being lapped up by tourists. All now #DieHardReds with a megastore plastic bag. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

United chased the dollar and the dollar chased them and bought them back. Karma in motion. Oh, and The Glazers are now the biggest spending owners in United’s history. Now read that again. So why protest? Because City are winning trophies and the Rags world is out of orbit.

Utd fans are whining and protesting because Manchester City are top dogs. Tonight, Manchester City qualified for the Champions League Final. United play on Thursday to qualify for the Europa Cup Final, a competition known among fans as "The Losers Cup" because it is competed for by the clubs who are rated second best in their national league, or are relegated to it by being dumped out of the Champions League in the Group Phase, Incidentally, it was Paris St Germain who were responsible for United going out of the Champions League, the very team City humbled in the semi final tonight with an aggregate score of 4-1.

Ever since Manchester City were taken over by the Abu Dhabi Group, led by Sheik Mansoor in 2006, United fans have taunted City with the amount of money the Arab backers have spent to build City into an elite club. But an analysis of transfers over the last ten years will reveal that United have spent far more money on transfers than City. And City, having broken into the European elite are now self sufficient. The Mansoors still own the club, but they don't have to finance it any more.

So United fans still bang on about City "Buying Success", but that is precisely what United have done for far, far longer.


And so it's easy to draw the conclusion that the United fans protest on Sunday had nothing to do with how much the Glazers have spent. Utd have spent over a billion and a half (sterling, not dollars) in the last 8 years (more than anyone else in football) with average managers... ...while City are winning trophy after trophy and playing breath-taking football under the leadership of a genius coach. Spit your dummy out at last have you reds..?? We all know that’s the real reason.

The protest that resulted in the match against Liverpool being called off probably had nothing to do with the league table, but it was convenient. Manchester City are on the cusp of winning their third Premier League title in four seasons. Had Livepool beaten Manchester United on Sunday, City would have been mathematically certain to be champions. The protest probably didn't have that in mind, but getting the match postponed saved them that embarrassment.

City are going to win the league, but United fans will breathe a sigh of relief that the final straw didn't come with their defeat at the hands of Liverpool.

United are no longer dominating English football, and they aren't even challenging in the major European competition any more, and their fans can't cope with it. That's why they are protesting. The allegation is that they are using the Glazers as an excuse.

United won thirteen Premier League titles between 1993 and 2013 under the Glazer ownership. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

United won the Champions League in 2008 under the Glazer ownership. Did their fans protest then? No they didn’t.

So screw Manchester United and their social media followers who couldn’t find Manchester on Google Earth. If Utd were top of the league today there would be no protests. Not a single one.

Manchester United are no longer the best team in Europe. They're not even the best team in Manchester any more.

Utd chased the dollar but the dollar chased them back. The irony is supreme. Chickens coming home to roost for the most financially gluttonous football club in history. United almost single handedly transformed football from a club game into a hard core business.

So when you read that Gary "self-promoting" Neville says that every football fan should get behind United fans for the sake of the game....do me a favour.

Manchester United have been a toxic and self-serving financial cancer to English football for the past 30 years.

And their fans haven't protested. Not once.
Leon On about 2 hours ago




San Diego, California
#2052New Post! May 05, 2021 @ 00:07:21
Thanks for that Jen. I know it’s not the NFL and I know you know that I know it’s not the NFL.

Pretty sure I was just being used as an opportunity to wax a novel on the recent history of the state of soccer in your country. And your hatred for Man Utd.

What I’m not sure is whether you’re aware of why I posted about team sports ownership in general and why used the Chargers as an example. I suspect you do, but lifting that guise would have hindered your need to write all that.

So, while I’m pretty sure the OP will see the correlation, I’ll spell it further in the off chance you didn’t:

The reason teams were so quick to disregard years of history and tradition in their rush to the super league is due to foreign ownership. Local owners would have been understandable more sensitive to all that was wrong about it and hesitant as a result.

What happened to the Chargers is due to the exact same reason.
Jennifer1984 On June 04, 2021
Returner and proud





Penzance, United Kingdom
#2053New Post! May 07, 2021 @ 12:32:56
@Leon Said

Thanks for that Jen. I know it’s not the NFL and I know you know that I know it’s not the NFL.

Pretty sure I was just being used as an opportunity to wax a novel on the recent history of the state of soccer in your country. And your hatred for Man Utd.

What I’m not sure is whether you’re aware of why I posted about team sports ownership in general and why used the Chargers as an example. I suspect you do, but lifting that guise would have hindered your need to write all that.

So, while I’m pretty sure the OP will see the correlation, I’ll spell it further in the off chance you didn’t:

The reason teams were so quick to disregard years of history and tradition in their rush to the super league is due to foreign ownership. Local owners would have been understandable more sensitive to all that was wrong about it and hesitant as a result.

What happened to the Chargers is due to the exact same reason.



Actually, I didn't really have to write anything. It was a cut and paste of something I wrote for a sports forum where it's acceptable to write something longer than a tweet. It's considered a sign of actually knowing something about the topic being discussed and offering up plenty for people to think about and respond to. That was my motivation for putting it here. Silly me for thinking it might be read in that light..!!

A comprehensive, expansive statement should stimulate discussion and get people involved....... and goodness knows, this site could do with some people getting involved. I look in here only once a week now, and find myself kicking metaphorical tumbleweeds out of the way in my attempt to find something worth responding to.

But hey...... if it's all too difficult to comprehend, and I've committed the mortal sin of not being completely in the thrall of Manchester United, as many are for no other reason than the fact that they are Manchester United, then that's fine.

Oh, sorry..... I hope I'm not keeping you from everything else going on in this hive of activity.

See you next week.
Leon On about 2 hours ago




San Diego, California
#2054New Post! May 07, 2021 @ 13:42:20
@Jennifer1984 Said

Actually, I didn't really have to write anything. It was a cut and paste of something I wrote for a sports forum where it's acceptable to write something longer than a tweet. It's considered a sign of actually knowing something about the topic being discussed and offering up plenty for people to think about and respond to. That was my motivation for putting it here. Silly me for thinking it might be read in that light..!!

A comprehensive, expansive statement should stimulate discussion and get people involved....... and goodness knows, this site could do with some people getting involved. I look in here only once a week now, and find myself kicking metaphorical tumbleweeds out of the way in my attempt to find something worth responding to.

But hey...... if it's all too difficult to comprehend, and I've committed the mortal sin of not being completely in the thrall of Manchester United, as many are for no other reason than the fact that they are Manchester United, then that's fine.

Oh, sorry..... I hope I'm not keeping you from everything else going on in this hive of activity.

See you next week.


Not sure where you got the notion that it is considered a sin to be completely in the thrall of Man U. I’m not either.

But nor do I go out of my way to write heaps of paragraphs (no matter where written) on my disgust for them or their fans.

There is such thing as indifference on that.

And being there would certainly have better kept this on the point of my initial post, it seems, rather than derail it with cut-and-paste blather having nothing to do with it.
shadowen On July 12, 2021




Bunyip Bend, Australia
#2055New Post! Jun 04, 2021 @ 13:32:49
For me Leeds have been the most exciting team to watch this season. They play the same style of game in the EPL as they were playing in the Championship. They play essentially the same way whether it's up against Liverpool at Anfield or Sheff Utd at Elland Road. Yet they have shown that they can make changes mid game. Their last outing against City was a good example. Bielsa fully deserves all of the accolades that have come his way. For me he was the manager of the season (just ahead of Pep with Moyes next).

The other team to impress (beyond the obvious) were the Hammers. For a team that many were predicting would do well to avoid relegation their season was pretty special. They finished 6th with the club's highest points tally in the history of the EPL. In doing so they finished ahead of Spurs and Arsenal. For Moyes it was a really important season. After Everton he has struggled to make an impact at a number of different clubs and you think that the credit he had built up over his 11 years at Goodison Park (though he was not without his critics)was just about used up. I will be very interested to see how the Hammers go next season.
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