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Commitment and questions and Dogen

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dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#1New Post! Sep 07, 2020 @ 09:14:24
“Therefore, if there are fish that would swim or birds that would fly only after investigating the entire ocean or sky, they would find neither path nor place.”

The above words are by Dogen, the 13th century Japanese zen master.

They seem to suggest (among other things) that if we hold back from any form of commitment until we are totally convinced of its truth we shall never commit to anything. Then again, jumping into a very deep pool to find out if we can swim seems pretty stupid.

But do others have thoughts?
Darkman666 On about 18 hours ago




Saint Louis, Missouri
#2New Post! Sep 07, 2020 @ 14:40:48
@dookie Said

“Therefore, if there are fish that would swim or birds that would fly only after investigating the entire ocean or sky, they would find neither path nor place.”

The above words are by Dogen, the 13th century Japanese zen master.

They seem to suggest (among other things) that if we hold back from any form of commitment until we are totally convinced of its truth we shall never commit to anything. Then again, jumping into a very deep pool to find out if we can swim seems pretty stupid.

But do others have thoughts?


what the bird's objective if he or she purpose is to fly through the sky. or even, a fish's purpose is swim the ocean.

what kind of goal, would a fish or a bird have. only survive skills, they would for shelter, which would home for them. pretty much for any animal.
dookie On December 16, 2023
Foolish Bombu





, United Kingdom
#3New Post! Sep 07, 2020 @ 18:12:18
@darkman666 Said

what the bird's objective if he or she purpose is to fly through the sky. or even, a fish's purpose is swim the ocean.

what kind of goal, would a fish or a bird have. only survive skills, they would for shelter, which would home for them. pretty much for any animal.



Yes, there is no such fish or bird. Taking to the water, or the sky, is purely instinctive.

The human animal often tends not to feel at home in the world; we seem - often - not to take to our world instinctively.

Maybe Dogen is suggesting or pointing towards the dictum of those such as St Augustine, "I believe in order to understand", the age old questions revolvng around faith and reason. ?
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