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Trump administration ‘rolling back women’s rights by 50 years’ by changing definitions of domestic violence and sexual assault

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chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#31New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 02:11:43
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Westerners no longer breed anywhere near enough.




@bob_the_fisherman Said

The west is in a state of decline.


No it isn't.

But if it does decline some day.... well evolution rocks!
bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#32New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 02:17:24
@chaski Said

No it isn't.

But if it does decline some day.... well evolution rocks!



https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/birthrate-study-reveals-worrying-global-divide-as-rich-nations-keep-having-fewer-babies/news-story/1e8d5a1fd9ba1418587cc8cd78bfe5fc
chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#33New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 02:30:42
@bob_the_fisherman Said

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/birthrate-study-reveals-worrying-global-divide-as-rich-nations-keep-having-fewer-babies/news-story/1e8d5a1fd9ba1418587cc8cd78bfe5fc



Calling all right wing christians:

Start breeding...NOW! Sex is good... sex that makes white babies is even better!

bob_the_fisherman On January 30, 2023
Anatidaephobic





, Angola
#34New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 03:32:39
@chaski Said

Calling all right wing christians:

Start breeding...NOW! Sex is good... sex that makes white babies is even better!



Skin color has zero to do with it. The West is a culture not a color.
chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#35New Post! Mar 02, 2019 @ 04:26:34
@bob_the_fisherman Said

Skin color has zero to do with it. The West is a culture not a color.



Hmmm... a culture.
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#36New Post! Mar 03, 2019 @ 11:10:55
@gakINGKONG Said

But wait White_Swan.

Mr Trump is negotiating a deal with North Korea right now and it's still a little soon to declare him monumentally incompetent.

Could we not give the man another five years to give it a shot? Thanks.



What exactly do talks with Korea have to do with domestic violence in the U.S.?



I mean, you want to discuss his ability to parlay with Uncle Jong, fine...go start a thread about how awesome his parlay with Uncle Jong is. You can't do something wrong and point to something else right you did that has nothing to do with the wrong you did and say it's all fine though, can you?
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#37New Post! Mar 03, 2019 @ 11:40:53
@nooneinparticular Said

Unless I massively misunderstand what I'm looking at, this is the current definition of domestic violence according to the DOJ. Crimes of violence only cover explicit or implicit use of physical force or the threat of such.



It appears that is correct based on what I could find as well.

To people not really paying attention or not really spending much time thinking about it, this may not seem like much of a big deal. The definition on the DOJ website may seem at first blush to be reasonable to some. Seem.

What criminologists and anyone who has spent any amount of time dealing with victims of domestic violence have come to understand is that patterns can be recognized early on and with intervention, prevented from becoming worse or, in extreme cases, even fatal to the victim. Or lead to things like homicide committed by victims who finally had enough.

As much as I recognize that bringing psychology into criminal definitions is sticky, and as much as I believe that we have to be very careful when criminalizing behavior that doesn't directly injure someone (I should be able to call someone an a*****e even if it upsets him), abuse ABSOLUTELY includes non physical things. Intimidation itself is against the law in a lot cases...and when it's done systematically by a domestic partner to another, it's abusive.

The current definition is actually based on the definition provided by Obama's Violence Against Women Act (VAWA)

Quote:
Domestic violence is a complex crime and is often labeled as family violence or intimate partner violence. Under VAWA, domestic violence is generally interpreted as intimate partner violence. Intimate partner violence includes felony or misdemeanor crimes committed by spouses or exspouses, boyfriends or girlfriends, and ex-boyfriends or ex-girlfriends. Crimes may include sexual assault, simple or aggravated assault, and homicide. As defined in statute for the purposes of VAWA grant programs, domestic violence includes felony or misdemeanor crimes of violence committed by a current or former spouse or intimate partner of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabitating with or has cohabitated with the victim as a spouse or intimate partner, by a person similarly situated to a spouse of the victim under the domestic or family violence laws of the jurisdiction receiving grant monies, or by any other person against an adult or youth victim who is protected from that person’s acts under the domestic or family violence laws of the jurisdiction.22


The current DOJ definition (from the link in nooneinparticular's post) is:

Quote:
The term “domestic violence” includes felony or misdemeanor crimes of violence committed by a current or former spouse or intimate partner of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabitating with or has cohabitated with the victim as a spouse or intimate partner, by a person similarly situated to a spouse of the victim under the domestic or family violence laws of the jurisdiction receiving grant monies, or by any other person against an adult or youth victim who is protected from that person’s acts under the domestic or family violence laws of the jurisdiction.


Look familiar? It's more or less a cut and paste direct from the Obama program.

Now...that being said...I am sure that some hard line conservatives will point to this and say that they are only using the exact language set forth by the previous administration.

As much as I wasn't a huge fan of Obama though, this argument fails when you consider that the definition provided in the VAWA that has now supplanted the DOJ definition was strictly meant to be used in relation to the distribution of certain funds for grants to educate and to study domestic violence, and the actual DOJ definition under Obama was in fact much broader in application to the law itself. That's what the bit "As defined in statute for the purposes of VAWA grant programs" refers to in the VAWA.

I certainly can't and won't defend the change to the current definition. When there is clear causality from one type of abusive behavior that isn't physical leading to actual physical abuse, I don't see the merit in removing that from how we define it.

"911...you're being abused? Okay, but you better have a black eye when we get there or you'll have to call us back when you do."

I also find it unsettling that the DOJ isn't really explaining why they felt the need to change it. No one really knows and no one is really saying anything about why.
Eaglebauer On July 23, 2019
Moderator
Deleted



Saint Louis, Missouri
#38New Post! Mar 03, 2019 @ 11:47:42
@chaski Said


No it isn't.

But if it does decline some day.... well evolution rocks!


Argh. I want to say something here, but this thread is getting derailed enough....
chaski On about 16 hours ago
Stalker





Tree at Floydgirrl's Window,
#39New Post! Mar 03, 2019 @ 15:39:28
@Eaglebauer Said

Argh. I want to say something here, but this thread is getting derailed enough....



I thought Bob's comment "The west is in a state of decline" was (sort of) on topic.

My comment was refuting his assertion.

I used the word "evolution" referring to the "evolution" of society, as in the west ins't declining, it is evolving.

Note: I fully acknowledge that "evolution" is a "charged" word that sets off the religious (like Bob), and I used that word on purpose instead of choosing a less "charged" word.

Anyways...point being:

> I do not agree that the west is in decline.

> However, I actually do agree with the premise of this thread (as I read it), that the Trump administration is pushing the USA backward. As I have said before, it will take us 50 if it doesn't take us 100 years to recover from some of his policies.

gakINGKONG On October 18, 2022




, Florida
#40New Post! Mar 03, 2019 @ 19:01:42
@Eaglebauer Said

What exactly do talks with Korea have to do with domestic violence in the U.S.?



I mean, you want to discuss his ability to parlay with Uncle Jong, fine...go start a thread about how awesome his parlay with Uncle Jong is. You can't do something wrong and point to something else right you did that has nothing to do with the wrong you did and say it's all fine though, can you?



There was none. You're right, It was a jump (unfounded assumption/tangential thought.)

But there were several jumps made by the OP. I think the biggest jump is this idea that Trump himself is changing the legal definition of domestic violence so as to muddy his tracks or pave the way for future endeavor (Watch Out Melania he's coming for you! I wouldn't think that this is true; at least I hope it isn't.

My thoughts here are that if something along those lines turns out to be the case that the political and legal apparatus which is hostile to the Trump brand will produce evidence of that and move to overturn this definition change.
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