He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will fi

@bob_the_fisherman Said

But again, MCB, you apply this scripture to a cult to whom it does not belong. The Mormons do what you guys do, and even use the same scripture.

However, we could mount a reasonable case for the Mormons and JWs being spoken of in the bible - they are the types that worm their way into peoples homes and take control of the weak. The rest of humanity see their folly. That is why they are a small church.

@MadCornishBiker Said

I have done no harm to Christianity, only to your Apostate versions, I hope.

@MadCornishBiker Said

It might have been a valid point if scripture did not make it very clear, in prophecy and in the events that back those prophecies up, that the Jews were rejected as God's chosen people when they rejected Christ. Unfortunately the majority are too proud to accept that as the fact it is.

The Jews were not the only ones who shared their last crumb in Auschwitz and similar, so did the Gypsies, the Homosexuals and the JWs. That in itself means nothing.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Well, as what you call apostate is actually Christian, we do see a problem here. However, you have done considerable harm to your own cult too, but again, I think it is deliberate. I honestly believe you are either mentally incompetent, or a backslidden JW seeking to mock your old cult by making them look like retards.

I have to admit, MCB, you played your part well. Until recently, I actually thought you were a real, genuine cult bot. You played a brilliant hand, MCB.

In appreciation, I doff my hat to you.

It was genius on your part to present the JWs here to allow them to be systematically dismantled, whilst, the whole time, you pretended to be a supporter of their madness.

@tariki Said

As usual Biker, you miss the point entirely.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Actually, I disagree with you here. That was the first time that MCB has applied logic in his argument - until that point, I was not sure that he even could. It was this that finally convinced me that, far from being a mindless cult-bot, MCB is deliberately out to do the JWs a great deal of harm by sprouting their madness and allowing so many of us to shoot it down time and time and time again. Why he chose this course of action is beyond me, but, I have it to hand to him - he gets 25 out of 10 for being effective in destroying the credibility of his old cult.

@tariki Said

Bob, by missing the point, it was just the depressing way that he applies the "letter" rather then the spirit. Though he claims to have "the mind of Christ" one can see that in His earthly life Christ never used the "block vote" in judgement of anyone in His actual living relationship with them. And in parable after parable, the "good" are those who show mercy, show faith and trust, show love. It is the merciful who will be shown mercy, the pure in heart who will see God, it is the peacemakers who will be called the children of God.

Yet all the Biker was able - and is able to see - was the "block vote" of the condemnation of the "Jews", and of course, he always associates salvation itself with yet another "block, the JW's, which includes - of course, himself.

Now, if he reads this, he will drag our verse after Biblical verse to provide "proof" - irrefutable proof! - of his own position, clinging to the letter and missing the spirit of each and every verse. As will always be the case with the natural man who does not understand the things of God.............(as one verse says!)

Desperately sad, continuely depressing, and heartbreaking.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

It is true that MCB has put forward a very blinkered, and quite hopelessly wrong view here, namely, that of the Jehovah's Witnesses - however, it has been so thoroughly crushed we need not take it, nor him, seriously. I am convinced that he could not be serious in his theorised support of his former cult - he has made them look too ridiculous for anyone to believe in. Therefore, it has to have been a cunning plot on his behalf to mock them. Maybe it is payback, who knows, but his efforts cause me to marvel.

Try as I might, I could not make the JWs look nearly as retarded by pointing out their obvious stupidity as he did by defending their obvious stupidity. It takes real skill to achieve what he has achieved here.

I stand in awe.

@bob_the_fisherman Said

Well, as what you call apostate is actually Christian, we do see a problem here. However, you have done considerable harm to your own cult too, but again, I think it is deliberate. I honestly believe you are either mentally incompetent, or a backslidden JW seeking to mock your old cult by making them look like retards.

I have to admit, MCB, you played your part well. Until recently, I actually thought you were a real, genuine cult bot. You played a brilliant hand, MCB.

In appreciation, I doff my hat to you.

It was genius on your part to present the JWs here to allow them to be systematically dismantled, whilst, the whole time, you pretended to be a supporter of their madness.

@tariki Said

Well, without seeking to sound pious..... .........I often satnd in awe of the fact that what seems impossible to us is very much possible to the Divine. I learnt this early on, when I knew this guy - a fundamentalist Christian - who was genuinely good person. Good in the sense that often you could see the twinkle in his eye and the sheer joy of existence in him. Yet, when the subject of religion came up the shutters would fall, the light died. When he was self consciously "religious" and sought to be an "example" of those that "love the lord" he was a walking disaster. I remember when his mother was ill, and he had a few days off work. When he returned to work he strode into the office and someone asked..."hows your mother John?" replied, "Shes never been better thank you". I immediately knew excatly what was coming, and sure enough it came..."She's in heaven with Jesus." And he sat down, straight of face, demonstrating his "faith". When he left the office, the guy who had asked the question said, "That's finished me with his religion.If you can't cry for your own mother when she dies, forget it."

I would suppose he had cried, and in the manner of "zen enlightenment", of how the miracle of zen is "when happy laugh, when sad cry", or of Luther when his own daughter died and he was heard to say..."how strange. To know she is in heaven with Jesus, yet to feel such sadness". To give voice to our humanity by living it, not denying it because of the demands of "faith".

So for me, the guy was being redeemed in spite of his beliefs, not because of them. Just who is in control? If it is grace it is grace.

I remember again, when I spoke to him and said "John, you can't really believe in hell, can you?" and he just thumped one fist into the palm of his other hand and cried out to the beat of his fist "they SHALL suffer, forever, and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever!!" almost as if to convince himself and "please the Lord" that he was a good servant.

But no kidding, and no false humility, I still see him as a "better man" than myself. Though such "competition" doesn't really come into it.

Anyway, just saying. Who is to judge?

All the best

@MadCornishBiker Said

Hey, at least I am giving you two someone to talk about behind their backs, even if you are both way off the mark, lol.

@bob_the_fisherman Said



What can I say, credit where it's due. You have done the JWs irreparable damage, which is great. Also, you provided many opportunities to show precisely how and why the JWs are by no means Christian.

It has been a master stroke on your part.

@MadCornishBiker Said

Hey, at least I am giving you two someone to talk about behind their backs, even if you are both way off the mark, lol.

@Richard142 Said

Much experience arrives unexpectedly, both a challenge and opportunity. How we respond in this shared chaotic world, help or pass by, reflects who each person is. The community I live in is my family ... we get by with 'a little help from our friends' This Grand Old Despot [GOD] has little, if anything, to do with it.